Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jonathan Clarke on June 21, 2011 at 5:59pm

A number of people with way more experience than I and whose opinion I respect have advised against this for framed boats.  The general summary is, "Never extend the bottom covering over the chines on a framed boat."  This seems to be a fairly common practice with stitch and glue boats, probably because they don't have a sharp chine batten that's meant to be a replaceable wear part.  I'm sure folks who can explain this better will chime in.

Permalink Reply by twoblacklabs on August 17, 2011 at 6:06pm

BUMP.

 

I too am curious about this. Anybody?

Permalink Reply by Stephen Markley on August 18, 2011 at 9:08am

I am just learning this stuff too, so will regurgitate what I have read..

I have heard bed liner is tougher than nails... and it is NOT slick. Which can be a problem. Also, you will never be able to replace it... you will have to cut it out. UMHW might be better, then your chine batten will not be covered, and you can replace both if you need. Or use a 1/4 in piece of plywood as a shoe instead... I am kind of leaning that way, but I like the next idea too.

 

Also to protect the bottom for a frame boat and not use a shoe. I have read, 2-3 layers of fiberglass with graphite mixed in and maybe one of the layers use kevlar cloth. That sounds pretty bullet proof to me.

 

Generally search through the posts here, there is tons of info on this topic.

Permalink Reply by Dave Z on August 18, 2011 at 10:15am

Where do you float, what rivers? East or west?  define your conditions- there are pros and cons to each bottom treatment depending on your use intent.

 

The sandy waters of the Pere Marquette in Michigan require very little :"tough" bottom treatment versus a rocky and wild river like the Deschutes.

 

Permalink Reply by Jordan Davis on August 18, 2011 at 10:34am

I just went ahead and did it :)  It turned out nicely, running about 6 inches above the chine.  I used Herculiner, which has far more rubber particles than others.  It has a nice look and feel!

 

Permalink Reply by Andrew on August 18, 2011 at 12:19pm

Pics?

Permalink Reply by Jordan Davis on August 18, 2011 at 5:21pm

Soon, flipped her today!

Permalink Reply by chris towles on August 18, 2011 at 6:27pm

I think in the short run you will be happy but in the long run you wont. Frames boats require repair from time to time.. Heck I only floated my boat for 2.5 months last year before I wailed a rock in low september flows. Hit it hard enough to blow the chine batten apart. The breaking of the wood saved the sides, bottom, and glass on each surface from damage, but the batten was done. I bedded the batten with sikaflex 291. that stuff is amazingly flexy and you cannot peel the batten off with leverage, you literally need to take a a razor and cut along the joint and peel it off. Came off in less than an hour, and I had a new batten cut, bedded, and installed in the boat in a matter of a few hours. It was a quick, cheap, and easy fix.

If you now do the same to your boat, you are looking at probably days of grinding, cutting, and scraping to remove that stuff. You may wreck your glass and or side panels in the process. If you do its more grinding and scraping to get that stuff off entirely so that you have a surface that will take epoxy. Good luck getting at that joint to remove whatever bedding is holding that chine on. That joint will probably be caked with bedliner, trying to get in there with a razor blade or high e guitar string will likely be impossible, and you will probably have a messy repair to deal with. If you put a hole in the bottom, same goes, you'll have to grind thru to clean glass or wood to make the repair. I have heard trying to remove that stuff is like grinding thru a tire. On top of it, the stuff is non skid... Ie it is not slick and does not slide over rocks easy. That's why it is generally not recommended.

Don't get me wrong, in the right application, the stuff is great. My roomate coated his running boards and floors for his raft w it and he loves it. I think it could be a great coating for anything removable like floorboards. It would probably make a good coating for running boards to if your boat is laid out like that. You could coat your transom with it to protect from the anchor whacking it. It could make a great bottom coating for dry boxs. But on the floor which is subject to abuse, occasionaly rocks, etc and does need to be repaired from time to time, I don't think it's necessarily the best bet on either side. Everyone has there preferance on floor treatment. Do to the nature of pooling water and my desire to try and keep it out, I like a sealed painted floor on the inside. Epoxy first, then primer, then paint. Make sure your chine logs are well bedded and you should be good to go. If you use glass with the epoxy that's even better and will help give the inside a glass skin to help keep impacts from being transferred thru the floor and breaking on the inside which is the nature of a glass only out side floor. It also combats checking if you floor is fir. However, on a framed boat this is a pain unless you are dealing w new construction and glassing one sheet not 10 bays. Many others here will tell you just bed the Chines and oil it. That' works pretty good too. However, I am not one that thinks oil is the end all be all wood treatment. Works great for some stuff but it does have it's fair share of drawbacks too like any surface treatment. whatever your treatment, don't let water sit and pool for long periods of time that's where problems happen regardless of how how you try to protect the wood.

On the outside, others hit it on the head. 1/4" ply shoe is old school and works. Oil it to death, epoxy it, paint it, heck for a removable 1/4" ply shoe bedliner could even work. If you go to glass try to get to the 20 oz mark somehow 3 layers 6oz, 2 layers 10 oz, one layer 17-20 biax or triax glass. Use graphite powder on your flow coats for a hard slick finish that slides real nice over rocks. All of these treatments make for pretty care free repairs.

Thats pretty much the jist I think, it's more a question of maintenance and repair than a questionn of the durability of the . The bedliner is plenty durable. It'll be there long after you want it to be. But if you do alot of boating you are bound to hit something someday, and the boat needs to be repairable in the event of that. Quick easy repairs mean you'll be back on the water faster catching fish, not sitting in the driveway cursing trying to grind all the rubber off your boat so you can get a surface that will take glass

Permalink Reply by Jordan Davis on August 18, 2011 at 8:57pm

Number one (and I don't see how I ever expressed putting it on the bottom in my original post...)  I DID NOT coat the bottom of my boat with bed liner.  The bottom of my boat is PLY---> Epoxy--->Epoxy---->24oz glass--->epoxy--->coat-it.  It is rock solid and repairable.  I will post a picture tonight so you can see how it was applied.  Simply put it runs from the chine cap up 6" on the sides.  It is two coats of rolled on Herculiner.  It is much much thinner than the sprayed on application that most shops or professionals use (spraying with a 1/4" gun).  It will be easily taken off in case of any repairs.

Permalink Reply by chris towles on August 18, 2011 at 9:39pm

Yes you did not state putting on the bottom specifically, but you did mention Going over the chine cap with it as well as it being in an impact zone (not being able to slide over rocks) and being near or below waterline. What was everyone supposed to think? What you have done is hardly what the conventional use is anyhow, how am I supposed to know where you cut it it off. I'll bet all of the boats that you mention seeing are most likely s&g boats and as such have no chine cap. They have a glassed chine and run bedliner on the bottom over the chine and up the sides. And I personally think it is not a good use there either. S&g boats do require chine repair and you'll need to grind it off there too.

My comments about bedliner were just general and a response to it's use in boatbuilding. Personally I dont see it as a good use anywhere on the hull of the boat for the reasons mentioned above. Not floors inside or out, not Chines, especially not on framed boats. It adds no strength to anything, it just prevents against scratching and abrasion.. That stuff is cosmetic. If you take a hit hard enough to damage the panel, it's coming thru bedliner or not. The only difference will be the amount of grinding required to get thru the stuff to get to a good surface to repair. If you put it in a place that's less likely to be repaired like say 1/4 up the side, those spots don't really need that much protection anyways.

Honestly, I could care less what you want to do on your boat. You asked a question about bedliner... you wanted opinions, that's what I gave you.. An opinion, just that.
Don't shoot the messenger bro.

Permalink Reply by Dave Z on August 18, 2011 at 9:22pm

Now I'm confused. You didn't bedliner the bottom, but only up the sides based on your last post.  Chine battens are meant to be replaced in most cases.  The S&G crowd uses bedliner on the bottoms and over the chine (there is no batten) and up the side a little bit.

 

It's your boat, and there are definitely many ways to skin a cat. knowing chine battens are somewhat sacrificial, I guess I wouldn't (and don't) make them a permanent fixture on my boats. 

 

On my rivers, which can be flat to class 3 typically, I've rarely if ever rooked a boat above the chine on the side of the hull.  (That is NOT saying I'm a master at the oars) I've torn chine battens to shreds on the other hand.  Battens are cheap.

 

Bottom line, it's your boat. Don't feel like you did wrong here.  Go out and rock it.You may never need to replace a chine and may have found the golden ticket.

 

Most know here, I'm a former-fiberglassed-bottom-converted-to-oiled-wood-shoe....I'll spare you...you can search all those posts somewhere here. 

 

 

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Jordan Davis on August 18, 2011 at 9:29pm

Here are some pictures for your enjoyment...