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Permalink Reply by Lawrence E. Long on March 22, 2011 at 2:45pm

Mark:  Have a good time. Sounds like a fun trip- rather than a strip joint.  One question_  has she taken out an insurance policy on you? Just a SA comment from Maine. The boys from the West can give you good advice.

Good Luck

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Permalink Reply by mark hilbert on March 22, 2011 at 2:53pm

Lawrence,

Not my wedding, so no insurance on me that I know off, but I'll check what the wife has done to the policy before I leave.  I'm already in lots of trouble with my wife because it's a guys only float.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Dearing on March 22, 2011 at 6:16pm

Mark,

 

You guys are aware that the W&S section is permit only that time of year? I always use the Agness gauge  http://waterdata.usgs.gov/or/nwis/uv?site_no=14372300 to look up water flows, some people prefer the Grants Pass one, just depends on what you used to reading when gathering beta.

 

Ok, now for my official form letter I give to people who go down with me their first time.

 To me this river is exactly what a multi day float trip should be like. The trip in the canyon (Wild and Scenic) is something that everyone who loves rivers should undertake at least once in their life. The scenery, remoteness, fishing, wildlife, and whitewater are all thrown together in a balance that keeps people coming back year after year. I only wished I had started floating it sooner. I really feel like there are not too many places like this left in the lower 48 and if anyone has a chance to float it they should jump at the chance.

I consider the Rogue to be our "Home River" and try to do it at least once per year. May 6^th this year will be my 26^th trip down. The Rogue was, for good reason, one of the original "Wild and Scenic" rivers. Here are some suggestions I give to people their first time down, maybe it will give you a little idea of what its like.

0) Stop and eat at the Galice Inn - Good food, shuttles, and advice
1) Launch at Alameda Bar or Argo rather than Grave Creek. That way you can camp at the put-in and rig your boats ahead of time. It also extends the trip by a few miles and gives you a good warm up before you start hitting the Class III rapids.
2) Spend an hour just watching Rainey Falls.It is an awesome spectacle.Get close enough so that you can feel the vibration. It is really cool watching the Salmon try to get up too.
3) Visit the cabin at Whiskey Creek. It also makes a great first night camp if doing four or more days. The hike up Rum Creek is nice too. During Salmon season (late summer - fall) the fish stack up below the mouths of theses creeks too.
4) Horseshoe Bend is a magical place.The camp on the upper bench is unsurpassed.
5) Stop at Zane Grey's Cabin - The caretaker used to give you fresh vegetables.
5) We generally camp the third night at Mule Creek if its not packed full of commercials. Hike up and tour the Rogue River Ranch, there is so much history here.The cool waters of Mule Creek make a great place to spend a hot summer afternoon's reading or fishing.
6) Mule Creek/Coffee pot are really not hard in a raft, but trickier in a driftboat. Watch out for Telfer's rock and wear your PFDs. Do not rush through - this is a very special place. Stop and enjoy Stair Creek Falls.
7) Scout Blossom your first time. The move isn't hard but it helps to have seen someone else do it first. Scout from the big rocks on the right.
8) Make the climb to Paradise Lodge and have an Ice Cream bar. Try to visualize what the canyon must have looked like during the floods (You will understand when you are there).
9) We generally camp our last night (Night 4) at Tate or Tacoma, but be carefull with food down here, most bear probelms tend to occour here. Be sure to hike up to the waterslide on Tate Creek if its s summer trip. Don't miss the chance to do the waterslide!
10)The waterfalls at the end of the Clay Hill (Flora Dell and Fall Creek) Stills are worth the short side hike.

General:

Spend most of your time above Blossom - Much more of a "wilderness feel" - No jetboats, bears, and few lodges.

We have never had bear issues above Blossom - Use the bear fences on your last night.

You can Read and Run most everything if you have good river rumming skills and are used to at least class 3 water. I sometimes scout Blossom, sometimes I dont, kind of depends on how I feel and what the flows are doing. Upper Black Bar is also a bit tricky (stay right). You don't need to be a hero at Rainey - use the fish ladder on the right for driftboats. The Middle Chute can be fun in a raft, but the entance is tricky.

We are able to use our firebox much of the time but call first to confirm that it is OK. You must have a groover.

We have found it easy to get permits in May and June. The river is high then (3 - 5K) but really isn't much harder at that level, I have run it over 10,000cfs, we actually ran Blossom on the right of the horn rock, it was one of only two rocks still visible through the whole rapid. The waves and holes through there at those flows were massive. Mid-Summer levels of 2000 - 2500 CFS are nice and relatively forgiving. Late summer and fall can give you low flows that make things challenging. I think we have run it as low as 1000 CFS.

Sorry for the book, hope it helps, if you have any specific questions about this trip I'll be happy to try and answer them.

Mike

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Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on March 22, 2011 at 8:06pm

Mike this is a great write up and wonderful advice. You also have much more experience there than me. 

I think you are just a little generous to the river so I want to add just a couple of cautions.  Black Bar isn't difficult but the center of the river will eat a drift boat unless the rapid is washed out.  Most people will stay right but don't get fooled into thinking you are looking for adventure and take the middle.

 

Blossom sinks a number of drift boats every year because there just isn't time for a mistake.  Stay on your toes and scout the pull above picket fence.  That is a must do move that is easy to understand when you see someone go through. 

 

I'm just over cautious on advice.  The Rogue is a very special place and thousands run it every year without an issue.  But there are a handful each year that have a very bad day.

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Permalink Reply by Lawrence E. Long on March 23, 2011 at 5:21am

Mike

Your thoughtful essay on the Rogue is much appreciated.  Taking the time to educate others shows you have a real respect for the river.  Too bad I will never see it.

Thank you

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Permalink Reply by David Jensen on March 22, 2011 at 9:18pm

Mark, are you related to the great Harrison Henry Hilbert (H)?  If so, he knows it all. I boated with him on the McKenzie  and the Rogue many times before he moved to Idaho.  Great guy.  The Rogue was well scouted by Mike and Randy.  The trouble with it is that if you have hot weather a day or so before, it can flood and be really dangerous due to snow melt.  Since I fly fish only, don't have an opinion about fishing then.  The McKenzie and Deschutes are closer to PDX, and a safer bet for not being in a dangerous stage.  Also, there are fish to be had on flies on both.  While I would have no knowledge of strip joints near the McKenzie, I would ask guys I play hockey with if you wish.

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Permalink Reply by mark hilbert on March 23, 2011 at 5:49am

Thanks Mike, Randy and Dave,

 

We did draw a permit for the 5th, but trip leader, groom to be, has planned only a 3 day trip.  I'm going to bring my flyrod and hoped to get into some salmon/steelhead if they're still in the river.  Mike's information was very helpful and makes me think I'm gonna be spending a lot of time on the sticks if you typically do it in 5 days.  The rapid info you all gave is great and the exact beta I need, along with side hike/camp recommendations.  I have a feeling I'm gonna be hauling a lot of gear and peeps down the river and was hoping to get some fishing in at camp if we aren't pounding the water hard to get downriver in 3 days.  Also I just don't know your runoff timing/weather effects on river levels and fish runs, so that information is very helpful.  I would love to take the time to fish get great trout streams of Oregon that I have heard about for years and hope the timing isn't bad as here in the Rockies early June is runoff and rivers can be blown out.  I assume Oregon's runoff is earlier.   

Is Black Bar/ Blossom Bar the same rapid?

I'll definately try to put-in at Alameda or Argo due to camping

I may leave the wood at home and run my raft as it will be easier to haul out west in the back of the pick-up instead of trailering my drifter. 

 

Thanks for the information and please keep it coming.

 

Mark, no relation to HHHilbert (I think) 

 

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Permalink Reply by Greg Hatten on March 23, 2011 at 9:00am

Hey Mark,

Sounds like a great bachelor party... the Rogue Wild and Scenic is a very cool place and well described by my fellow Oregon wood boat enthusiasts.  I've been down it many times in wood - but never in June so I can't advise you on the fishing.  I've been there in Fall, Late Winter, and Spring and the fishing for small steelhead called "half pounders" has always been pretty good.  With a fly rod they are a blast and excellent to eat after a hard day on the river!!

We usually do the Wild & Scenic in 4 days and 3 nights - but we've done it in 3 days, no problem - just less time to fish.  The river is hard on wood boats and there are more than a few rapids that are unforgiving, regardless of the craft (kayak, raft, drift boat - wood and aluminum).  First time down, I'd advise going in a raft or following a drift boat that has been down it several times.  Blossom Bar is the most notorious for messing up a trip and can have some dire consequences for missing a stroke - even IF you've done it several times.  I have great respect for the river and particularly these rapids: Graves Creek Falls, Tyee, Wildcat, Slim Pickens, Black Bar, Mule Creek Canyon, Blossom and Devils Stair Case.  There are lots of good books with excellent descriptions of how to safely navigate the river - my favorite is the Rogue River Float Guide and is available in the Galice Inn coffee shop and probably on-line in a number of places.

All that said - it's a FANTASTIC section of river... very special and unique place!!  It will be an unforgettable Bachelor Party.  Have fun!!

GH

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Permalink Reply by Mike Dearing on March 24, 2011 at 7:35am

Mark,

 

Four day trips are ideal as far as I’m concerned, but three dayers are most common casue most people are pressed for time nowadays.

 

If you can read water well and are used to being in a class three or better water all the rapids are boat scoutable, but you should take a look at blossom first time down it is notorious for eating boats of every kind, but is particularly hard on driftboats. Black bar and Blossom are different rapids and Randy is right Black bar can be pretty tricky cause the line from the top looks center but is far right. That being said, I think the line through center will be open for you guys in case anybody blows it. The water will be higher then what most people see during summer flows on your June launch date, but I personally think it gets easier up to a certain flow. I would expect the river to be in the 3000-5000 cfs range, not dangerous at all and covers lots of rocks that have to usually be dealt with during mid summer flows. Also at these flows there won’t be near as much slack water to slog through between rapids either. Don’t worry about large spikes in this river, the only way this usually happens is if we get tons of rain for days on end. The Rogue is a large volume river and handles lots of rain well. The other rapid you should be concerned about is Rainie Falls two miles into the trip from Grave Creek. There are three ways to deal with the falls,(1) drop the main falls, a class five drop that can be a recycler if you swim, (2) the middle chute which is a class four double drop off to the right hand side of the falls from on the water, (3) or the fish ladder which is a class three bony no maneuvering lining channel that 95% of the people who go down use and is mandatory in a drift boat. The middle chute is what I use for my raft, but is the hardest to find from on the water and has a difficult to make sharp left turn at the top to get the boat lined up for the drop. Hang out and watch a few others go through then make your decision.

 

I usually end up taking a raft on this trip over my drfitboat only because I haul lots of gear down there to make everybody else’s life in camp more comfortable...hey someone’s got to do it. 

 

Mike

 

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Permalink Reply by Tom Scarborough on March 26, 2011 at 7:22pm

Have a great time on the Rogue. The Deschutes is a good option for fishing on your way out after the wedding. Dam controlled means that you don't have to worry about the fish being hunkered down for a spring runoff event. Either the Warm Springs to Maupin, or Maupin (Buck Hollow put-in or further downstream) to the Confluence with the Columbia. Both can be done in 3 days/2 nights, or you can push it for a 2 day/1 night. Check regulations: shore fishing - no fishing from the boat itself. Also if you don't have the time to float, you could always hike in and fish in the Hike/Bike area near the confluence, right off of I-84 taking you east from Portland. You can also car fish along the road near Maupin. A lot of other rivers in the NW at that point in the season will be big with spring runoff

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Permalink Reply by mark hilbert on May 23, 2011 at 9:00pm

I'm under two weeks from launch and I see the flow is at 7,000 cfs.  Anyone got any high-water Rogue advice for me?  Thanks-  Mark

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