Screws vs. Ring Nails

Randy,
When I was picking up my 16 foot kit, I believe you expressed a preference for ring nails over screws in the chine log because of greater ingress of water and rotting if screws are used. I am about to put on the UHMW plastic bottom. The instructions I have call for screws to attach it. Unlike the other fasteners going into the chine log, fasteners securing the plastic bottom cannot be sealed away from water with anything. Is there any experience securing the plastic bottom with ring nails? I would be very interested in your comments or the experience or perspective of any of the members.

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Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on February 7, 2009 at 9:56am
Yes, The reason I like them so much for putting on the chine is they are a perfect partner to wrapping the chine edge with fiberglass to protect the end grain of the plywood bottom and adding the protective chine batten to make that chine area able to withstand a 5 to 8mph rock bash.

There are two properties that make the nail perfect for the chine batten, 1. they don't lift try to separate the fiberglass from the side with the screwing motion when you are installing the chine batten. 2. They are soft enough that they can be cut through with a saw if you need to remove the chine batten to replace it.

Because of the softness of the screws which Jason has mentioned you need to pre-drill for every nail. This is especially important in the oak chine batten. You should also use a steady even hammer tap rather than the big framing hammer smack. If you are off center at all you will bend the nail. Once they are in they are rock solid, and the silicon bronze is a great fastener material.

I like 'em. The big draw back is they don't come out! So definitely not for use on the UHMW bottom.
Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on February 8, 2009 at 7:55am
OK here goes. Randy with all due respect here is why we don"t nail our chine caps. We don't wrap the chine joint with fiberglass but we do soak the end grain of the bottom panel with epoxy. ( This is a topic that should be discussed in another thread) We install the chine cap using a polysulfide bedding compound like 3M 101 or Life Caulks version of the same. The chine cap is buttered up and installed with screws. The screws allow just the right amount of force to squeeze a bead of caulk to ooze along the joint. This provides a water proof seal of the joint and makes replacing the chine cap quite easy. Obviously both types of fasteners work and both have been used for decades. We have removed both types while restoring old boats and repairing new ones. Our latest restoration project is a boat built in 1953. It had aluminum nails holding the chine cap and metal strip in place. It came off easily with hammer and chisel. Just my opinion.
Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on February 8, 2009 at 1:28pm
This is a topic worthy a lot of discussion and even some more testing with photos and write ups of how each method is holding up. I'm pretty hard to offend A.J. so don't hold back.

I forgot to mention that at Tatman's we also install the chine cap using a polysulfide bedding compound. We happen to use 3M 5200. In every repair that Sanderson has worked on, the boats that have the bottom and chine caps bedded with polysulfide ALWAYS have wood underneath that is in great shape. The only places of rot are where the polysulfide either did not adhere or was starved in the joint.

So I do agree with you about the polysulfide. It is king of the flexible joint and must be applied as a bedding leaving enough thickness of the material in the joint that it seals and is flexible. The joint cannot be starved of bedding material or it will not be properly protected.

I think we agree more than we disagree. Your method is more traditional to historical building of white water drift boats.

I'll start another thread with our current method of bottom and outside chine instillation. I invite everyone to jump into the conversation. This chine area is the foundation of the boat, the area that affects performance as much or more than any other and is the area of the greatest percentage of boat repairs.
Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on February 8, 2009 at 1:32pm
In the third paragraph I intended to say "because of the softness of the nails" rather than "screws".
Permalink Reply by Greg Hatten on February 7, 2009 at 12:56pm
In November, I turned my boat upside down and took the plastic off to check the bottom and make sure it was holding up OK.... I'm glad I did. I had a couple of places I needed to sand down and re-epoxy. Before I put the plastic back down, I poured "melted" Bee's wax in each hole, laid the plastic down and then reattached the plastic with "heated" screws - which, of course, melted the bee's wax as they were inserted and re-sealed the screw's. I came up with this technique when, after "sealing" every stainless steel screw when I attached the sides to the frame, I decided brass screws would look much better... so, I changed every single "silver" screw with brass - one screw at a time - breaking the seal and then "resealing" with hot brass screws. (I wouldn't recommend this and can't believe I just admitted it!!) GH

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