tubby on the rouge

tubby on upper black bar on the rouge river.
and on wildcat rapid.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Dearing on October 11, 2009 at 6:55pm
Good stuff guys. Traditional line through upper black bar, well done. Interesting line through wildcat, in an empty boat obviously runnable, would not have wanted to be where you were with a loaded boat though. The raft took the route I always go.

I get my third Rogue trip of the year this coming weekend, cant wait.

Mike
Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on October 12, 2009 at 2:37pm
Mike you are so right about Wildcat. It was my first time down the Rogue by myself and I foolishly decided to go to the left of Alligator rock. I would never had made it with a heavy boat.

Sandy and I have a lot of ideas about customizing a boat for the Rogue. I would like to get your comments as well. Size is a very interesting part of the discussion. I know the Helfrich family really like a 50" bottom, some prefer a 52, and almost no-one likes a boat longer than 17 ft. I would love to get your preference.
Permalink Reply by Mike Dearing on October 12, 2009 at 4:16pm
Randy,

I know not to go there by going the wrong way myself. One my second or third trip down (low water run) I got myself right where you were in my cataraft by blindly following someone else (another lesson learned). My cat was heavily loaded, and even worse my wife was right up front so it kinda scared her. I could get no purchase with the oars through there and ended up plowing into the big bedrock rock you were skirting along head on. The boat went right up onto it, the rear end dipped in from the water pressure pinning the boat to the rock because of the mesh floor I used to run on it. My wife and I both climbed out on to the rock and really had no idea what to do at that point. Long story short, I rocked, pushed, grunted and cussed the boat as best I could, and it finally lurched to the surface so fast we barely had time to both jump on and just ride it out to the bottom. Aftert that I learned the proper route through wildcat and have only deviated from it once when I actually ran left of the island the whole way down on a moderate flow trip. This actually worked very well and if the flows are higher I wouldn't hesitate to do it again, in the raft that is, proper route only for the driftboat though. I actually think this is one rapid on the rogue that is underrated, especially in a driftboat, its a very busy rapid and dangerously shallow in spots that make it very hazardous in a driftboat.

The other rapid I think driftboaters need to take more seriously at low flows is Grave creek falls. The lower the water, the bigger this drop gets. Last year I took the willie through there at a low oct flow. I lined it up pretty much dead center and ended up with about six inches of standing water in my boat and a very wet front seater. We hit a rock in the drop that can not be seen running the falls, at least I didnt see it. My friends in rafts who were watching us go through said they thought we were going down after hearing the BONG noise of the rock and watching the boat look like it was torpedoing to the bottom. According to them we completely disappeared in the foam pile. I can say I have never seen that much water come into my boat and quite honestly it scared me. I talked to a couple of Noahs guides later that nite as we were setting up camp and they said that almost every year a boat sinks there from doing what I did. They told me I should have been further to the left and riding the bubble of froth, I guess its smoother and you don't hit the rock, duly noted.

Boat size down there really depends on what you are hauling. If you are not getting support from a raft or such for hauling camping gear, like a two or three driftboat trip hauling all your own gear and camping I think a boat the size of the willie guide is perfect 16x54. Now if all you are hauling is passengers and fishing gear, 16x50 or even 16x48 is probably fine. For sure the 16' length is as long a I would want to go. Its all about the coffee pot man. You do not want a long boat in there if things go to shit, excuse my language,but to have the boat spin sideways and washed into the "door" then bridge=instant flip and is what drfitboat nightmares are made of. That section makes my butt pucker harder than any other part of the Rogue in a drfitboat.

I asked a couple of questions under the pictures that Sandy posted, check em out and let me know what your thoughts are.

Mike
Permalink Reply by Herb Jacobsen on October 13, 2009 at 7:33am
Great pictures both here and on the other post. I really miss being on the Rogue.

It seems to me we always ran Wildcat down the left side from the top. It has been a few years so the memories become a little fuzzy...... Same thing for Slim Pickens, we always went left. At least myself and a couple of others. I never did like the looks of the right side run. Taking on water was one of the things we had fun with. One lady finally caught on that the water always came in on her side. Lots of fun......... Lower Blackbar was great for that.....

Boat size for the Rogue is one of those imponderables. I have run 16X48's and 17X52's. I never had a problem with either. When I first started on the Rogue we ran all the way to Lobster creek so we had to pack an outboard with us for the water below Blossom. 3 people, luggage for 3, a cooler, fishing gear, chairs, the outboard and gas, all in a 16X48. We would only be sticking out a few inches fore and aft. I think we were stopping about 1500 pounds with a pair of wooden oars. I have a picture of me in the Coffee Pot and you can see the oars bent quite a bit as I pulled her off the wall.. It had me lifted off the seat. I will try to find the picture.....

I have never rowed a 50" bottom boat but would like to one day. For me the 17X52 Tatman was my favorite.

Herb
Permalink Reply by Mike Dearing on October 13, 2009 at 2:53pm
I always enjoy Herb's stories. I would love to run a trip down there with you one day.

I do think we (as in the next generation of river runners after guys Herb's age) are way more spoiled then they were, but on the other hand, I think they were more spoiled then the guys before them too, in what we get to row down rivers now. I also at times think that the boat you are floating in is kinda irrelevant compared to the skill of the guy on the oars, the stories from Herb prove my point here. I couldn't imagine rowing 1500 pounds of gear in any of my driftboats.Having said that, I'm also of the opinion its very cool to be able to take advantage of the experiences and knowledge of the boat builders/river runners that came before us. IMO the boats today are better then they were way back when, and I am thankful for them, they sure seem to make things easier.

Mike
Permalink Reply by Roger Fletcher on October 13, 2009 at 5:46pm
Fun video clips, Randy. The little boat really puts you in touch with the river and offers considerable forgiveness because of its maneuverbility. On our early Rogue trips we threw Tubby in the back of the pickup and trailered my 16 x 48. I can't recall the number of trips that included Tubby but they were many, and each one a pleasure. Ken built his Tubby in 1971 and it was his primary boat for 12 years. Those were the days when we cooked over open fires, left no trace of our stays, and boiled coffee in a old sock because I had this awful habit of leaving the pot's innards on the shop bench. River trips were spartan but our canopies were the stars. You can't beat that. Ken finally went to his 14' McKenzie after bearing my complaints about having to carry so much of his gear, escpecially after we decided that one too many rattlers in camp, who seemed to also enjoy the stars, persuaded us to start tenting.
Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on October 13, 2009 at 7:30pm
Thank you Roger. We had a blast we had on the Rogue. I was a bit worried until I took the falls at lower Grave's Creek... no problems. The light weight was a big advantage and the ride is like a horse, you let it move under you while you remain still. It is very comfortable.

That first day through the big water of the canyon was easily the most fun I have ever had in a drift boat. The trip that you recorded in your book was the inspiration for our trip and, of course, Ken's Tubby at the McKenzie River Wooden Boat Celebration was the inspiration to make a version of this fun little boat. It truly is a Class IV personal water craft. I want to share some photos with You, Harry, and Ken and would love to get the group of us together some time for a photo of us and the two Tubbies together.
Permalink Reply by Roger Fletcher on October 14, 2009 at 5:12pm
That would be fun. Perhaps we can talk Ken, Harry and the aged Tubby into coming down to the next McKenzie Boat Show.
Permalink Reply by Mike Baker on October 14, 2009 at 5:33pm
Damn!
That is one quick little boat!
Looks like you guys had a blast.
You just can't beat Father and Son time on a river.
Mike

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