10 ft pram design help

Hello!
I'm wanting to design/build a multi-purpose pram. I realize it will be a compromise. I weigh ~ 220# and my dog ~100#. I would like a pram that I can take out 'round the lake margins for ducks or fishing, or/and across and down the river (no whitewater). I think the flyfishing, drift prams are too much of a driftboat for my purposes. And the basic/typical pram design needs a little alteration for what I want out of it. I would like to load 400#- 450#, safely. This would be a stitch 'n glue project.

I plan to build something like the Hudson Springs Pram: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/me...ings/index.htm

I wouldn't put the seat in. This would be a more basic/simple design.

But, I want to put more rocker in it, especially the narrow, upstream transom. And I plan to rake the wide transom back and rocker it up, for rocky river use.

Z's Drifter looks nice!,, but I want a lighter boat:
http://www.woodenboatpeople.com/foru...s-drifter-pram

I'm seeing 10' prams with about 46" bottoms. Can/should I go narrower?

How much should I raise/rocker the two ends?

I would appreciate any/all thoughts on my concept, so far!

Many thanks,,, Ken

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Permalink Reply by Ken Shindledecker on August 18, 2012 at 9:56pm

Very nice!  I think the Z-boat is more to my liking.  I would take it down to 10', or narrow it.  This/your boat is more boat than I'd need; it'll handle serious water,, and I don't need that,, but the design/shape is to my liking!

Thanks,,  Ken

Permalink Reply by Dave Z on August 19, 2012 at 5:55am

Sorry, guys, I'm late to the party.....

Reason is, I'm working on another new design.... the pickup truck bed- one man loadable, solo pram for duck hunting, stillwaters.... yes, I know it has been done before, but, I can;t stop...addicted.

Anyways.... Lots of good points here.  The Z'z drift pram is certainly NOT a super light boat.  two guys can drag it where you want, but if you need a lighter rig, follow Randy adn Sandy's advice... they won't steer you wrong.

However, you can lighten up the boat alot, based on your interior appointments- no floor boards, simplified seats, etc.
 If you are just rockin stillwaters, consider lighter or thinner plywood for the sides.

Dave

Permalink Reply by Ken Shindledecker on August 19, 2012 at 9:30am

I'll be really interested to see what you come up with, Dave!  Do you think I can just oil/paint the boat, after tack-tape/SNG the seams?.. as opposed to glassing the entire boat?

Permalink Reply by tungsten on August 19, 2012 at 5:01pm

Ken, there have been many weekend boats built with just screws and cheap paint.Your plan of taping the chines and oiling the rest is sound.

Okume ply is about the lightest,around 20lbs a sheet 1/4".Gunnels can be made from lighter wood like spruce.Design some side boxes on each side or a permenent bench to give you side supports and stiffen up the bottom.A lot of these types of boats have been made and they come in around 80 lbs. 

Permalink Reply by Ken Shindledecker on August 19, 2012 at 5:23pm

Perfect!  Ya, I planned on a stripped-down version, with maybe some additional blocks on the sides that I could set an extra bench seat on.  I also plan to "Coat-It" the bottom.  Now, I'm in the process of reading the "how to", before I actually begin my paper model.

Permalink Reply by Dave Z on August 19, 2012 at 5:51pm

Ken,

My latest boat will be camo painted.  No glass, no epoxy.  Use it, abuse it and I'll bet it will still last 10 years.  I put up a quick blog update, has some info on my latest.


www.thtchronicles.blogspot.com

To make a model.  It is a good idea.  File folders and tape.  Go back in my blog archives and you'll see several examples of this. 

Dave

Permalink Reply by Ken Shindledecker on August 19, 2012 at 6:08pm

Thanks, Dave!  I actually found your model, during my searches for pram designs.


So,, do you think it's possible to have a 10' duck pram that'll easily transport 450#, with a stem transom raked back,,, (maybe/maybe not as much as your drifter, but more than the sailing prams), and less rocker than your drifter, and still be able to do light McKenzie/Willamette drifting?  (I can avoid the nasty stuff),, but I really don't intend to go through any serious water.

Thanks, Dave and All, who have responded!

Permalink Reply by tungsten on August 19, 2012 at 7:27pm

Thats one thing about designing your own,no one can answer how it will float or carry a load.this is why models are important.have a look at Guys thread,he scaled his weight down also,i did the same for my current boat.

you could also make your sides a little higher,its easy to cut them down after a few test floats.

 

my first boat had 15" sides raked out about 25deg,with me and elec motor,battery= approx 300lbs seamed ok but a little more would better if i was hitting waves.

Permalink Reply by Dave Z on August 19, 2012 at 8:13pm

Ken,

Those are questions, I'm not sure how to answer at this point.  Best you could do is model it up, and check the thread mentioned by tungsten on scaling weights for a model "float."

May be more critical on these smaller boats with no adjustable seats.  On the bigger boats with sliding seats, you can trim the boat to match your load.  That said, I think there are some compromises you need to come to terms with in any small boat.  None of them are going to have huge payload and perform awesome in all water types........which is why you need about 5 boats!

Find ray Heaters Mini Macs too-  he has three sizes of a similar boat.

Dave

Permalink Reply by Ken Shindledecker on August 19, 2012 at 8:47pm

Yup.. just like my flyrod, bow, anythingelse collection.... at least five of each!

Seats:  First, I gotta build something,, and then, go to the boat landing and throw the dog in it, with some gear and figure out where to seat/oar it,, and after a year, or so,, adjust the next design, so the flare and waterline profile works out.

This'll be my first; it's going to be a useful boat,, but/and, it'll be good practice for when I build the driftboat I want to design.

p.s.... Yes, I have looked at Ray's boats and downloaded his tech info.  These kinds of things and your boats keep me inspired, when I have these ideas and my older canoe friends tell me I'm gonna die in anything less than a 17'er.    I don't plan on standing in this boat to fish,, so I may narrow the front a bit..??

Many thanks!.... Ken

Permalink Reply by tungsten on August 19, 2012 at 9:04pm

 "I don't plan on standing in this boat to fish"

have you ever been in a little pram?100lb dog jumping from side to side while your leaning over the side landing a fish.would not be fun.

Permalink Reply by Dave Z on August 20, 2012 at 6:59am

Ken,

 

The Z drifter you can stand in, no problem.  However, there are no knee locks in my boat, but you could certainly design your own.  I set the seats high enough that you can stay seated and still fly cast.  This actually works well on smaller rivers, where standing makes too high a profile and spooks fish.  As a solo boat it works well.  Keep that dog up front, cooler, etc to balance it out and it is ultra stable to stand and cast. 

 

Your canoe friends are kinda forgetting that a flat bottom boat with squared ends is ultra stable and probably has more cargo capacity than a 17' canoe.   

 

There are alot of useful designs.  I forgot about Sandy Pittendrighs "buffalo boat"  that is a S&G boat and as you know, Sandy is a fixture around here too.  You might find that suit your needs well.

 

Dave

 

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