Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Phillip Westendorf on July 13, 2013 at 6:30pm

Jon,

I second Don and Rick on the safety issues.  As you build the canoe Cedar dust and Epoxy will be an issue. I'd recommend a 3M 6000 Half mask with a set of 3M-2901 Dust Filters, and a set of 3M 6001 Organic Vapor Cartridge Filters.  You won't be sorry, it's money well spent.

Here's a link, FYI.

 http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid...

Dorf

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Permalink Reply by Don Hanson on August 8, 2013 at 6:16pm

  Here's another hint or two...Keep the area clean as you build.  If you are forced to build outside, make real certain your project won't get wet...Don't ask how I learned this....Actually  I will mention that I came home from my day job to find my first canoe project had lost it's tarp during a thunderstorm in Wyoming and all the strips I'd so painstakingly glued and planed and fussed over?...they were sticking out all over like jackstraws!   I gave up that time...but did one later...inside this tiime.

  I think if I did another 'stripper' I would roll epoxy on all my strips before I began fitting and glueing them...then you could used acetone to clean up the 'squeeze-out of extra glue and make the sanding and finish work much easier and get a nicer product.

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Permalink Reply by Phillip Westendorf on August 8, 2013 at 7:19pm

Don,

Am I reading that you'd use epoxy to glue the strips after you coated them.  That's a ton of overkill for two important reasons.  First is the cost, the second time and effort on the buiilders part.

A traditional stripper is a composite with the cedar encapsulated in Glass and Epoxy.  The glue you use inside the glass and epoxy only needs to hold the strips together until the glass and epoxy are applied.  

Titebond II is the more popular glue used to glue the strips.  It's generally in the $ 17-$18 per gallon vs. epoxy at ~ $ 100/gallon.  Also you can clean up the squeeze out glue with a damp cloth or just scrape it off after it's partially set.  Both work well.

If you coat all the strips with epoxy you'll be sanding each strip's edge or bead and cove prior to applying it to the canoe.  Remember you need "tooth" in the cured epoxy to make the mechanical bond work.  

Also you'll be sanding it the majority of the epoxy off as you sand the canoe's outside and inside surfaces fair after it's all "glued together", an unavoidable event.  That job is a real "pain in the a.."  job, especially the inside.

Sorry to Rain on your parade but, IHO it's just not worth it.  Building a stripper is a fun job watching it develop as you add each strip.  Doing it indoors is a must!

Dorf

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Permalink Reply by Don Hanson on August 8, 2013 at 8:21pm

   Never thought of using titebond...When I have used titebond, and I do use that glue daily...I have to be really super-careful to try to get it all cleaned off so that it doesn't show up in the grain when you apply any finish...especially on softer woods, and cedar is very susceptible to hiding the fact that there is still a little glue in it's pores...

   I haven't done a stripper since I've gotten proficient with epoxy techniques but I  have done some cold molded craft, and those get the layers edge-glued like a stripper..I have not had any issues with gluing previously coated and cured epoxy layers together with minimal roughing up.  My thoughts on using epoxy to do the strips....Once the strips have been coated, you are certain they are going to behave properly and they are pretty impervious to moisture and staining during the further building steps.  I don't find it hard to work with, nor would I consider it's per gallon cost a drawback as an adhesive between the strips...but then....I have never done a boat like I suggested...so I could be wrong...but that is how I WOULD try one, if I were to do one in the future....

On two strippers I did build......I did a canoe and a driftboat....I used Weldwood plastic resin glue....and on the driftboat that proved a good choice, as it had water intrusion problems as it aged and was abused on the thin waters of the Madison River in Montana...the glue being waterproof, that helped hold it from further damage between repairs...  I would think a pre-saturated 'core'...all the strips being epoxied very well before glassing, that would further enhance the durability of the craft as it takes the inevitable hits that all boats seem to sustain...

  So perhaps I am talking a different type of 'hybrid' here...A WEST  (Gougeon Brothers trade name and also their initial/name for their own developed method of build...Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique...for those who never knew what W.E.S.T. System was...) System (cold molded in Old Speak) stripper that depends on giving the wood as much epoxy as it will take (saturation) before adding the glass skins...

  I find cedar strip boats are pretty ugly looking when the glass gets breached and the cedar takes on water and stains badly, which it does...and maybe pre coating the cedar would inhibit that a bit..

  Just noodling here...I only 'sort of' know this would work, but I have not actually done a boat exactly like this.  My double layer WEST rowing shell didn't discolor when the inside epoxy/glass layer was breached...if you got on it reasonably quickly...

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Permalink Reply by Phillip Westendorf on August 9, 2013 at 4:02pm

Don, 

If you get to build another stripper or other boat using your technique let us know how it turns out.  I'd be interested is seeing the results as it progresses.  

We all have our ideas and a "committment to make them work". So....

G'Luck,

Dorf

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