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Permalink Reply by Dave Z on March 12, 2009 at 6:30pm

Hey those are great. Do you know the origins of either of those boats?

Regardless, very nice, although I do not envy all that sanding. The green boat looks like it is not all that far from removing the interior finish. Most of it looks flaky. I'd say do a good prep on the outside, paint it up nice. Scrape the interior and mix up some dark oil and let it have it. But its your boat. Good luck with it!

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Permalink Reply by lhedrick on March 12, 2009 at 6:44pm

Epoxy alone has no structural properties. What it does is seal wood off from water.

It has a great property of being able to bond to almost anything and to encapsulate fibers and bond them to other surfaces like wood. It's the fiberglass, carbon or kevlar which adds the strength and stiffness. If you mix some epoxy and spread it onto some wax paper then peal it off, it will be a rubbery plastic type material which you can bend and twist. Now do the same thing by saturating a piece of carbon fiber cloth. When you remove the wax paper you are left with carbon fibers locked in to the epoxy matrix. It will not bend. If you apply load it will resist until it fractures, it will brake in half. Do the same with kevlar and it will be heavier and it will crack but the kevlar will not break off.

Lots of options. Carbon cloth is about 40 dollars a square yard, Kevlar about 20 dollars a square yard and fiber glass around 3.00 a yard. It's hard to beat plain weave fiberglass cloth considering the price.

L

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Jennings on March 14, 2009 at 7:52am

Thanks for the advice guys. Even though epoxy does not give strength, do you recommend that I give it a go on the outside and bottom of the boat? I was planning to paint the exterior regardless...with oil on the interior.

These two boats were from family friends that have had them sitting around for years. I believe they are both McKenzies. The finished boat did not have any identifying marks or anything like that. I was able to salvage a serial number off the green boat...although I'm not sure where to take it to find out the history of the boat. Any advice there?

I love restoring old boats to keep them on the river. It is a lot of work for those who are considering it, but is really satisfying once you're done and have it out on the water for the first time!

I've got a full day ahead of me...just me, a sander, and a bunch of cold ones!! Wish me luck!

Thanks again.

Jeff

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Permalink Reply by lhedrick on March 14, 2009 at 8:29am

Jeff,

Since these boats never had epoxy I'm not sure what benefit might be achieved by epoxy alone. Just sanding repainting may be the way to go. Most drift boat are in the water then out. The are dry most of the time so they should last forever. Light glass like 4 Oz per yard will stop checking cracks from developing which we often see on painted surfaces.

When the sanding is done take a knife point and poke around and look for soft spots which may be there. This could indicate rot. If you find soft spots epoxy can halt the decay. You will need to use your judgment to determine if the wood is at a point it can be stabilized.

To do this, get a heat source like a spot light, heat pad or hot air gun. Then heat the surface hot to the touch. Next mix up enough epoxy to cover the area using the slowest curing epoxy you have. The hot air trapped in the wood will expand with the heat. Remove the heat source and now paint on the epoxy. As the wood cools it will draw epoxy in to the wood helping to lock it together. Rotted sections of frames can be fixed by drilling lots of small holes into the area. Apply epoxy and keep applying it until it won't absorb any more.

The is a limit to how much rot this method will fix.

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Permalink Reply by mitchell on March 14, 2009 at 8:46am

Jeff is there a 10th rib under the fly decks in any of the three boats?

yes, please post the photos you have of the boat you oiled the interior of.

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Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on March 14, 2009 at 9:53am

Hi Jeff,
My guides and I share your enthusiasm for keeping old woodies on the water. We have restored three this past year and are always looking for another candidate. The boat in your pictures looks like a Keithe Steele. The trailer is a clue because it looks like the work of Steve Steele, Keith's son. If it has a 10th frame under the deck it could be a Hindman. Keith borrowed from Woodie and at first glance their work looks very similar. I would love to see those boats. I do come over the hill to the "flats" now and then to stock up on supplies and catch a Chukars game.

I would also like to see them here on the Snake on May 23rd for our Boat Show. There will be some pretty savvy folks in attendance that could most likely shed some light on the origins of your boats.

Boats of that era were mostly just painted over bare or maybe primered fir. Keithe Steele's advice to me when I visited him in 1988 was to use the best oil based paint I could afford and paint it every few years.. A light weight cloth/epoxy job will prevent checking and give a smoother finish. We have done that to a few restorations but on our last one,as an experiment (we do a lot of things that we refer to as experiments), we oiled the stripped exterior and put three coats of Kirby's paint over the oil. It looks really cool because the grain of the old fir panels shows through. We'll know in a few years how this experiment worked.

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Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on March 14, 2009 at 10:05am

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Jennings on March 15, 2009 at 9:47am

There isn't a 10th rib in the two boats pictured above...must be Steele boats? The boat in my icon picture does have a 10th rib.

I got a ton of sanding done yesterday in only a few hours. I'm about to head out again now to get a bunch more done. I will post some progress pictures up this evening. Some of the interior plywood is not coming out clean, I will need advice as to what action to take here. The plywood is most definitley fir because there is some serious waves in the grain after sanding. Is there any way to prevent/cure this issue?

Thanks everyone for the advice on epoxy and cloth. I may just have to put some lightweight cloth down on the exterior to give it a little bit more strength. My lady oars my boats quite a bit and she sometimes doesn't "see" things lurking in the water!! I would like to have some sort of insurance plan for when those encounters take place.

AJ, those two boats above are great looking. But, those weren't painted with that Kirby paint were they? If not, what kind of paint was used. I'm thinking bright red for mine!

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Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on March 15, 2009 at 12:36pm

Jeff,

Of the two boats pictured above, the dark green one is the Kirby paint. The lighter colored one belongs to Kirby Williams and is finished with Latex house paint. You can't see it in the picture but the wavy fir that you refer to does show through the paint. Just the nature of a fir panel. Don't know how to avoid this when restoring a painted panel. Light fiberglass cloth could help. We experience the stubborn paint that doesn't want to come out when striping a previously painted panel. A good paint stripper is the way we start and then sand out what doesn't want to come off with the stripper. This is what causes the wavy texture as the softer wood sands more quickly than the harder grain. In the end the boat doesn't care, it's just happy that someone gave it a new life. It's part of the patina that an old boat gets and I like the look. Kinda like my greying hair and wrinkled face, a sign of many years on the river in the sun and spray.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Jennings on March 28, 2009 at 6:45pm

Again, thank you all for the great advice. I've been busy with work these past two weeks. When you're a Realtor, you have to get it when you can!!

I am really trying to get the green boat done so I can come up to the boat show. Aj, if you head this way anytime soon, let me know as I'd love to show you the boats. The brown one pictured above is actually being stored in Swan Valley, but I do have two on hand! I also could use some advice on the progress of my restore (see below).

I spent a few hours with the boat today and made some great progess and some discoveries...one good, two bad!

First the good! I scraped away a hefty amount of paint from a metal plate on the bow of the boat. As it turns out, this plate showed me everything I've been wondering about it's orgins.

Now the bad...I think the bottome of the boat has begun to dry rot. I used up three pieces of sandpaper on one spot and it never changed its color. The color is a darker brown opposed to the bright look of freshly sanded wood. It's really hard to tell in the picture, but I'll post anyway.
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The second piece of bad news that was uncovered was a "hole" in the side panel. I will do another post about this issue. Some basic progress pics on the sanding. We all know how much fun that is!!!
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I can't tell you guys how much help you've been already. I don't even know how I got my first complete restore done right! Heres to warmer days ahead!
Jeff

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Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on April 1, 2009 at 2:04pm

Here is an image from the Coast Guard for pre-1984 hull numbers. This boat was finished in October of 1979. The numbers 61230 were up to Keith to use as he wanted. I'll see if I can find out what they mean.

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Permalink Reply by Herb Jacobsen on April 4, 2009 at 7:15pm

As far as I can tell both boats are Keith Steele boats. There are some tell tale signs of one of Keith's boats. The drain hole is in the middle of the boat rather than the stern. Reason, when you stack boats they are always on the level rather than tilted up. Water would drain from one boat to the next this way.

The limber holes in the frames, Keith's were square rather than rounded. The Knee braces were padded with foam and white naugahyde. Then there was the fly deck, it was always pinned rather than screwed in. This was for easy removal for stacking. Ketih always put the identifying plate on the stern which is actually the end that points down stream.

The sides were 1/4" fur and the bottoms either 3/8" or 1/2" with a shoe. Most of the times the boats were buuilt with ring nails rather than screws. Also the outside chine had an aluminum strip rather than UHMW. I did hear that Willard Lucas had some special steel pieces on the chines rather than the aluminum that Keith used.

There are other ways of telling one of Keith's boats but I will not go on. The trailer looks like one that Steve Steele builds, but Wayne Gardner built some similar trailers also. Actuall they were identical..Great trailers and stand up very well. They are built to stack boats.

Enough for now, hope everyone is doing well.

Herb

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