First River trip

Took my boat out onthe John Day from Spray to Service Creek Friday.  It was a good trip and She behaved herself and handled like a Lady.  Back in Feb. I had neck fusion surgery, and am still recovering from the loss of strength I had in my right arm.  by the end of the trip ( 4 1/2 hours ) my arms were beat.  This info, leads to my question.

 

Imagine an oar as a lever, with the oar lock as the fulcrum point.  When I hang 5 -16oz sinkers off of the handle, just below the grip, the oar becomes balanced.  How much "blade" weight do I need or want?  I'm thinking of wrapping the oars just below the grip with pencil lead to balance them out, but am unsure how much to put on them.  Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

TIA

Russ

 

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Permalink Reply by Joel Sauder on July 3, 2011 at 1:25pm

I am no expert, but i would think that you would want enough that your blades still submerged fully and quickly so it would not mess with your oaring rhythm.  Cataract makes a counter weight oar sleeve that is 4 lbs.  You could just slide on one and move it closer and farther away from the oarlock until you found the spot that felt right. 

 

Good Luck

Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on July 3, 2011 at 2:38pm

Russ,

 

A picture of the oars in their locks would help to determine a few things.  My best guess without seeing this is that you are rowing a small rapid robert with oars that are way too long.  Adding weight to a set of too long oars is not the answer.  Weighted oars are dangerous for sure and stupid,  the stupid part is my opinion.  Counterbalancing weights are what some boat dealers (used car salesmen) sell to gullable novices.   The more widgets they can add to the sale the more $$$$$ they make.  The mention of lead weighted counterbalnced oars  ussualy is in the white water rafting guy circles who think that extra long oars give them more power.  Stupid as the mechanical advatage at the fulcrum goes to the river, not the rower,  when there is too much shaft on the river side of the oarlock. 

 

From the looks of the transom on your video I'll guess a 14x48 rapid robert.  Try an 8 1/2' oar and see what happens.  An 8' oar is very popular on boats of this size and fits most rowers.  If you are sitting too low it might seem that you needa long oar.  The higher you sit in your seat, the shorter the oar needed to hit the sweet spot.

 

This could be a good time to have someone explain the advantage of the dealer popular 6lb. oar conterbalanced with 4lbs. of lead to create 20lbs of oars,  30lbs if you carry a 10lb spare.

 

So far I have enjoyed using spruce oars that weigh in at about 4lbs. apiece.  What have I been missing?

Permalink Reply by lhedrick on July 3, 2011 at 10:14pm

What makes counter balanced oars dangerous?  Couterbalancing wights being sold to "Gullible novices" ---,  I have been in boats with some of those Gullible novices who have run every western river there is totaling thousands and thousands of miles.   

 

Care to explain yourself and explain what makes a boater with 30 years of experience who uses counterbalancing wights a novice.

 

Not sure what you are missing but a lot of those novices are as solid with the oars in their hands as any boater I have ever been with.

 

I could say that 4 pound spruce oars are for losers who can pull real ash oars but, I won't.  

 

L

 

Permalink Reply by Lawrence E. Long on July 4, 2011 at 6:12am
Boys:  I can't resist the temptation to join in this pi$$ing contest.  An oar is a machine to move the boat.  If you can do the job with 4 lbs  why would you want to do it with10 lbs?  I have ash oars and spruce oars- both of which move the boat at hull speed.  The ash oars can take more of a beating on rocks - the grandkids use them as push poles.  An old guy- long dead- made his living building boats and making custom oars- Culler.  He designed oars with square sections inboard of the leathers(rope wrappings) for proper balance. I may just be a crabby old SOB  but AJ has it right.
Permalink Reply by lhedrick on July 4, 2011 at 2:31pm

You also have it wrong.

 

There are thousands of boaters out there.  I am 6 foot 3 230 pounds.  I can swing big ash oars all day but I don't.  I have been in boats with heavy oars with smaller women who when they took over had a very hard time with a set of heavy Sawyer oars.  They had trouble pushing them down and they were anything but novices.  One of them has run the grand 5 times which makes her an expert in my book and she uses counter weights.  The oars were mounted too far out, not my boat, I was just rowing it.  This is the point.  Every one likes a different setup and not all people have the same power.  To claim a person is a novice because they choose one oar setup over another is lame.  I know one outstanding rower who has his oars way out with rubber stoppers.  He pull them in and out as needed.  No way a lot of my friends with many, many years of rowing are going to do that.  

 

There is no right way.  If you like pins that's fine, I don't.   When I need to row that setup I row it.  I can row any setup out there and I have my preference but that doesn't make it the only way.

Permalink Reply by Don Hanson on September 14, 2011 at 11:01pm

  Well, how about a sliding seat and outriggers?  Anybody try that?

 

  Actually I have to side with AJ...not about all people who counterweight oars being Novices....but there really is no reason to do that, if the looms are properly placed and the oars are a proper fit for the boat and the oarsman....or row-person if you like to say  it that way.

  I've rowed some real clunkers, too...some of the stuff the Snake River rubber guys use....just awful!  Some boat and oars are so wrong, together, that you want a canoe paddle instead...but when you get things just right, with the lightest oars you can use without damage....it is like you don't even think about where you want the boat to go....

  There are better things to be done to make an oar balance in your boat...Adding weight to it....Think about it....how many strokes does take to fish a summer on the river??  Every single stroke, you are moving that extra weight, back and forth, up and down.......weight you stuck on because it was 'the easy thing to do'...Why not figure it out?  Then you won't have to move a couple of extra lbs a bazillion times through the summer season...

  Don Hanson

Permalink Reply by mitchell on September 15, 2011 at 4:00pm

as nancy said...just say no to counter balanced oars. If you can't pull your oars out of the water without weights, maybe you should not dig em in so deep. I've really never see any advantage in putting any my oars any deeper than the blade. So if the blade is the only thing in the water..it's very easy to lift out.

 

When the blades are on rest (not stroking) they are balanced by good ol' me by letting them balance on the lock. Easy peasy. I row with sawyer stout solid ash smokers.

What works for me might not work for you but that's my .02

 

Permalink Reply by Dave Z on September 15, 2011 at 7:09pm

I agree with the oar length AJ bring up.  My vote is that you need shorter oars for your boat.

 

A starting point.....

Width between oarlocks divided by 2, then divide by 7 then multiply by 25 then minus 6 inches...

 

So...60" across the oarlocks...as is the case with my flyfisher skiff...

((60/2)/7)*25 = 107 inches, minus 6 = ...divide by 12, viola! 8.4feet.  Go with an 8 or 8-1/2 footer depending on what feels good to you.   I like an 8 foot oar in this boat.

 

Or the case with my 16x48..... 64" across the oarlocks.... yields a 9.02' calculation.  However, personal preference for this boat is 8-1/2' oars.

 

I have a set of retired ash oars.... New Zealand "Gull Oars" and they are beasts.  I only use them in whitewater.  I made a few sets of laminated spruce/fir oars that I prefer as they are very light and flexy.  Most of the water I float is Class dos or less.

 

Another way to look at is is to decide you inboard length of the oar... alot of old school recommendations are for a 7/18 leverage ratio. 

 

For example, let's say I want 28inches of inboard oar. Let's figure out the outboard oar length....the formula becomes:

Outboard length = (18/7)*(inboard length)

outboard oar = (18/7)*28 = 72 inches.  add this to 28 = 100 inches. divide by 12 = 8.3 feet. Viola! an 8 foot to 8-1/2' oar.

 

Math is fun.

 

lifting weights is not.

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on September 20, 2011 at 6:12pm

YAY MATH!!!

 

I typically think of it as half the distance between oar locks times three. So if its six feet between oar locks it would be nine foot oars.

 

So many options!

Permalink Reply by Robb Grubb on September 19, 2011 at 7:45pm

Russ, Great looking boat. Glad to see it on the river. I was curious about that stretch of river, how's the fishing and shuttle time? Keep rowing and listening to the winds of discussion... quite entertaining... and educational.

Cheers, Robb

www.RiverTraining.net

Permalink Reply by Russ Tuter on September 19, 2011 at 9:12pm
Was my first time on a river in the boat.  I thought it was easy.  IIRC the river was at 6' and I just floated over the rocks.  We didn't fish, though there was some good looking water for Small mouth.  We arrainged a shuttle through the store/resaurant/shuttle service and Service Creek.  I just stopped there and said when I planned to take out, and the rig was there. 
Permalink Reply by Greg Max on September 22, 2011 at 1:53pm

Russ,

I agree with Rob, great looking boat.  Fantastic to see another one make it out on the water!  I think a lot of the advise on this thread would be for a permanent solution, which may not be applicable to you.  From the sounds of your situation, you're re-building your strength and the solution that you are looking for is temporary.  I think that your pencil lead idea will work great because you can continue to remove bits of it as you regain your strength.  Also, it doesn't seem like you're running big water where small technicalities can have a larger impact, so I think that you'll be fine.  Whatever gets you out on the water and helps you enjoy your boat is a good thing.  If you're having fun and are rowing water that is within your skill level, you're doing it right.  As you make your full recovery, you can figure out a permanent oar solution.

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