Grand Canyon Vacation Advice

Hello Everyone,

After spending the last few years in awe of everyone's Grand Canyon photos and stories, I'm seriously contemplating a trip this summer. I can't do it until June or later. Does anyone have advice on the best way to hook up with a private trip, or is the OARS (or other outfitter) trip the way to go? Frankly, I'm not too keen on forking over $10,000 for my wife and I, but if that's the best option to see the canyon, I would do it. Is June or later a bad time of year? Any suggestions from the pros would be much appreciated?

Thanks,

Brant

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Permalink Reply by Ben A. Hayes on January 29, 2013 at 12:25pm

If you're capable and want to do your own trip, keep your eye on GC lottery cancellations and sign up for their emails. I got this one today:

We have just opened a follow-up lottery for 2013 launch dates at the weighted lottery website (https://npspermits.us). The lottery will accept applications until Thu, January 31, 2013 at 12:00 PM (noon) Mountain Standard Time. The available launch dates are:

Standard Size Trips (1 - 16 people):
February 2013: 28
March 2013: 2


Small Size Trips (1 - 8 people):
April 2013: 7, 11
May 2013: 29, 31
June 2013: 6


Winners will have until Fri, February 01, 2013 at 12:00 PM (noon) Mountain Standard Time to pay their nonrefundable deposits ($400 for standard size trips, $200 for small size trips).

Two additional launch dates are available outside the lottery via a call-in system to the first eligible caller. See below for more info.


AVAILABLE 2013 RIVER LAUNCH DATES VIA CALL-IN SYSTEM

The following 2013 launch dates are available on a first-call, first-served basis for live-callers only (no phone messages) through the River Permits Office phone line (M-F, 8am-noon, 1-4pm, MST, 800-959-9164 or 928-638-7884) to the first eligible caller who pays the nonrefundable $400 deposit. The one-trip-per-year rule and all other normal rules apply. These dates will remain available until claimed.

Standard Sized Trips: (allows 1 to 16 participants at a time)

January 2013: 31
February 2013: 2


2014 MAIN LOTTERY

On Friday, February 1, 2013 the National Park Service will begin accepting applications for noncommercial river trip permits to raft the Colorado River through Grand Canyon National Park. The permits will be for specific launch dates within calendar year 2014. A total of 450 permits will be available for 12- to 25-day river trips. Eligible individuals may apply online at the weighted lottery web site. Applications will be accepted online through noon Mountain Standard Time on February 26.


Sincerely,
Grand Canyon River Permits Office

==============================

=====================================

The Grand Canyon River Permits Office sends out emails announcing the main lottery
and follow-up lotteries. You can choose to receive all,
none, or any combination of these emails. To set your email preferences,
login and then click on "Edit Personal Information".

To be sure our emails get to you, add the following two email addresses
(grca_riv@nps.gov and send_only@npspermits.us) to your email contacts.
This should prevent River Permits Office emails from being blocked by a spam filter.
______________________________________________________________________________

Grand Canyon River Permits Office Contact Information

Phone:  800-959-9164 (toll free)
        928-638-7843 (optional non-toll-free number to same line)

Fax:   928-638-7844

Mail:  National Park Service
       Grand Canyon River Permits
       1824 S. Thompson St., Suite 201
       Flagstaff, AZ 86001

email:  grca_riv@nps.gov

Websites:
     Main River Permit Information: www.nps.gov/grca  - click on River
     Available Launch Dates: www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/cancelled-dates.htm
     Noncommercial River Trip Regulations: https://npspermits.us/grandcanyon/river/pdf/Noncommercial_River_Tri...
     Frequently Asked Questions: https://npspermits.us/grandcanyon/river/pdf/River_and_Weighted_Lott...
     Statistics From Past Lotteries: www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/noncommercial-riv-docs.htm
     Lottery Website: https://npspermits.us
     Password Reset: https://npspermits.us/grandcanyon/river/forgotLogin.cfm
Permalink Reply by Brant Jaouen on January 29, 2013 at 12:48pm

Thanks for the info Ben, but I'm definitely not qualified to lead my own trip down the Grand Canyon. Actually "not qualified" is an understatement. I'd go with "wildly unqualified". Still, I'm just stupid enough to do something like that. However, my wife is really smart and would never participate if I was in charge of anything other than maybe what type of beer to buy for the trip. Thanks again for the info though.

Brant

P.S. With $10,000 (OARS trip cost), I could get a pretty sweet rig and everything else I would need. Don't think I haven't thought about this....

Permalink Reply by mark hilbert on January 29, 2013 at 4:47pm

Keep an eye on www.mountainbuzz.com and look under the trip planning tab.  There are people looking for trip members frequently.  It would be a plus for any trip to have a person with your medical skills in their group.  Good Luck.

Permalink Reply by Kelly Neu on January 30, 2013 at 7:37pm

Yes, there are often posts on this site requesting trip participants, however, ask a lot of questions before signing on to one of these trips. I think the two most important ones are:

1. What is the experience level of other participants especially the boatmen/women.

2. What is the hierarchical set up of the trip. Is their a trip leader? Free for all? separate groups? Personal dynamic issues? Health/Mental problems?  

Basically, make sure its gonna be safe and super fun!

-Kelly

Permalink Reply by lhedrick on January 29, 2013 at 5:00pm

10000 WOW,  I assume you mean 5000 each.  My last trip in Nov 2011 was around 600.  I have been on 5 trips and only one was over 1000 and that was due to paying to take out at Diamond and contracting out for the food.

I you decide to go with an outfitter, make the assumption it might be the only trip you make and get as many days on the river as possible.  I feel sorry when I see 25 people on a giant motor rig who will only get to spend 7 days in the greatest place on earth.

search groups.yahoo.com for "rafting grand canyon".  Sign up and watch the forum.  You can learn a lot and find links to trips sometimes.

Permalink Reply by Brant Jaouen on January 29, 2013 at 7:36pm

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll keep my eyes peeled on the message boards. Mark, I'm surprised that my medical skills trump what you know to be my amazing skills at the oars.

Permalink Reply by Kevin C. on January 30, 2013 at 7:25am

check out Moki Mac for a much more personal and intimate trip ...beware of joining a private trip with people you don't know..the knuckleheads you may hook up with may turn a once in a lifetime trip into a nightmare.

 

Permalink Reply by Kelly Neu on January 30, 2013 at 8:00pm

Hi Brandt,

If you want to go with a commercial outfitter...

Oars works.

Brad Dimock who is a boatbuilder here runs a sweet Dories & Stories trip with Azra.

I (Kelly Neu) also run Dory trips with Tour West but next available trip isn't until 2014.

Another boatbuilder is Lonnie Hutson and he runs trips out of Tour West as well.

If you want to go on a private:

Sign up for the Grand Canyon River Lottery which begins around Feb 1st.  

If you win, you can organize your own trip.  Rent your gear from Ceiba or Pro and share your costs so that you can compensate your boatmen...The GC lottery will have guidelines for how that works.  I've done privates for around $700 but we all had our own gear and our own boats and boatmen.  If you go the rental route it should come out in the $1400 range.  Good luck!

Permalink Reply by lhedrick on January 31, 2013 at 8:24am

Kelly makes a good point.

Start working now to find people who can help you build a trip.  If you can find an experienced trip leader they will usually have the connections to the people with all the skills and gear to build a 20 day trip down the canyon.

If you wait until you get lucky enough to win in the lottery, then you will be in a scramble to find a trip leader who can help assemble a safe, experienced crew.

20 days with people who don't work well together can ruin a trip.

You also need to be a dictator when you get a permit.  You must get people who will commit to the trip.  Require a reasonable deposit and it does not get refunded if people drop out just because they changed their mind.  If you pack your own food the trip can take months to prepare and you need people who understand the commitment and work load.  People dropping out cause major problems.  Those who have done more the one trip understand.  I know people who will join a grand canyon trip and say "I'm in, how much do you need to get started then tell me what you need".  Others are in and out and cause lots of difficulty.

I know people who work for "Oars" and I would also recommend them. 

Permalink Reply by Brant Jaouen on January 31, 2013 at 8:31am

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I like the idea of putting my own trip together, but it sounds like a lot of work and medical school in my mid-thirties wasn't the best idea for leaving free time for trip planning. I think I have decided to try to find a private group though. It sounds like it would save a lot of money. Thanks again for all of the suggestions.

Brant

Permalink Reply by joe nielson on February 1, 2013 at 7:27am

Brant,

The biggest thing to consider, for me any way, is this; Do you want to row your own boat, or have someone else row you down? I mean, would you (and the wife) be happy rowing big rapids, or would you feel more comfortable giving that responsibility to someone else? This is largely dependent on your personality type. 

 

Perhaps a big thing to consider is why are you going? Most people who do privates want a "hands on" trip where you share in the work of planning, packing, cooking, loading, rowing…  (I admit, I really enjoy all of the tedious planing that goes into a trip.) Or would you rather pay someone to take care of those details(and back breaking rowing) for you.

If you know the rapids would be over your head, then go with an outfitter, where you can relax with a camera in hand and enjoy the scenery!! However, if the purpose is to row the rapids yourself, perhaps in your own boat, then go private (because you won't row rapids with an outfitter)

good luck, Joe

Permalink Reply by Brant Jaouen on February 1, 2013 at 8:23am

Joe,

The rapids are most certainly over my head. However, I do like the idea of being able to practice behind the oars in some of the more forgiving sections, which is probably a no-no with the outfitters. I think a private trip is probably my best bet, but I might have to postpone it until I have more experience or meet the right people to put a trip together. Thanks for the input everyone.

Brant

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