Screw Distance

How far apart should I space my screws when attaching the siding and bottom to the frames. It would be nice to space them further apart to save screws, but that being said I feel its not a place that I want to skimp on. Maybe every six inches?

 

Also do you glue the side pannels to the frame or just use screws? If so how do you keep glue from going everywhere?

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Permalink Reply by Jack Rose on March 4, 2011 at 10:19pm

Ben, I'm no expert.  I've only built one boat and that was 15 years ago.  However, I'm in the process of taking it apart to replace the bottom, so it's fresh on my mind.

My boat is from a Tatman kit, and I'm pretty sure that I was too insecure in my woodworking skills at the time to have not followed Greg's instructions, precisely.

After having spent today removing a couple hundred screws, I'd guess that they were spaced at about 5" and not as much as 6".  That said, you've probably read, elsewhere, that your boat would stay together using 3M 5200, only, and no fasteners.

And after spending the whole day prying the bottom off my boat, I can vouch for that.  It's much easier to pry apart the layers of plywood than to separate the bottom-most ply from the chines or frames because of the 5200 holding them together.

After today's experience, I'd say that the primary purpose of the screws is to hold the bottom in place while the 5200 cures.  So you may be able to get away with fewer screws, but I defer to the more experienced folks on this forum.

That bond is strong enough, though, to make me wonder if it mightn't be a good idea to remove all the screws after the 5200 has cured and seal the holes to prevent rot.  But you go first on that idea and let me know how it works out.

As for gluing the sides, I haven't a clue, and can't remember how I did mine, and don't think I'll have to find out on this repair, but I've read differing opinions on that on this forum.  Some do and some don't.

 

Good luck,

 

Jack

Permalink Reply by justin nicola on March 5, 2011 at 5:19am

i always use glue and screws.  w/ just screws, they can back out over time, or shift.  if you use high quality s.s. screws (like swaneze) they will last.  also, i just did my side panels and i glued and screwed them.  use glue brushes for even coverage.

 

disclaimer- like jack, i would defer to those wiser, lots of people w/ more experience on here.

Permalink Reply by Dave Z on March 5, 2011 at 5:30am

4" on the side members, 5" across the bottom.   I use ring nails, no screws.  I use sika 291 LOT or 5200 on the bootm frame members to plywood, no glue on the side frame members.  It doesn't offer much in my opinion, other than a big ole mess.

 

You could go 6 inches across the bottom as long as you still bed with 291 or 5200.  or buy a pound of ring nails and nail it up. or mix nails and screws.

 

Permalink Reply by Lawrence E. Long on March 5, 2011 at 6:00am

I agree with Dave Z- silicon bronze ringshank nails are cheaper,faster and just as strong as screws.  Avoid 5200- use something  like  Sika- think it comes in tan/mahogany.  5200 is for a lifetime- see some of the posts on getting it off frames.  With screws you have to countersink for the heads- eliminates this step with ring shanks

Good Luck

Permalink Reply by Kevin C. on March 5, 2011 at 6:00am
dry fit everything and mark where your frames meet the side panels,wet with epxy and add thickened to one of the surfaces.we use a screw at top and bottom to set in place (pre countersink) and then use #6 or #8 silicon bronze ring shanks every 4"(also pre drilled w a 1/16"),being sure to compensate for the frame angles as you go fore and aft to avoid missing.The frames closest to the bow and stem need to be pre drilled starting  at the edge of the frame to be able to hit the meat of the frame without punching through the sides of the frame.Take your time ,dont rush this process.The bottom gets dry fitted and pre drilled also w 3/4 " silicon bronze flat head screws into the chine and silicon bronze ring shanks (#6 or 8) in the field every 4",make sure you mark your frame weep hole so you dont nail into that area.Spread 5200 on the frame surfaces (not just a bead ) so that you have ample adhesive for the floor to bond with .We use an artists pallette knife to spread the goo so it's thicker in the middle and thin down to the outside of the frames.I would not recommend putting screws in and then removing them afterward as this just creates voisds all through the boat that may or may not completely fill later.Whenever using the ring shanks ,before pounding them flush ,check the interior for ooze and and the poosibility that the nail has strayed off course and is poking through,so you can remove it and re-nail.Having someone under the boat watching speeds up this process.... 
Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 5, 2011 at 7:48am
I am going to fiberglass over the out side. If I use nails do I lightly counter sink the heads just like I would with a screw so I can get the glass to lay flat?
Permalink Reply by Kevin C. on March 5, 2011 at 8:01am
thats correct,send the nail home with a broad nail set or a ball peen hammer with accuracy
Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 5, 2011 at 8:08am
What is the advantage of using nails over ss screws? Besides price?
Permalink Reply by Lawrence E. Long on March 5, 2011 at 9:49am

faster installation, just as strong as screws, don't have to drill a countersink hole in the PW down through several plys  to get the head of the screw flush- which makes for a stronger  joint, can get nails in 3/4",7/8",1" ,1 1/4.  A little fairing compound on the nail head and you will never see it- especially under fiberglass.  I paint right over them without FG and most of the time you can't see them.

The downside is you can't back them out like a screw- but then again they  won't back out like a screw will at times.

Just one more opinion- Good Luck

Permalink Reply by Dave Z on March 5, 2011 at 10:07am

You want to use #14 ring shank nails, not #6 or 8! as mentioned.

I buy 1-1/4" for everything, predrill with a bit the size of the shank. 

 

I also clip the tips off of them before driving into CVG fir.  Often the nails will pickup a soft grain and take a turn through it, even when pre drilled.  clipping tips off minimizes this.

 

If your going to glass over the entire thing, I'd just consider using hot dipped galv. But I'd still nail it up.

 

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Kevin C. on March 5, 2011 at 11:53am
oops,Dave is correct on the nail size ...I was thinking screw sizes and writing about nails...sorry for the confusion
Permalink Reply by Robb Grubb on March 5, 2011 at 12:51pm

Ben, Regarding sealant or glue on the side ribs, from a previous post, I am remembering that you are wanting watertight decking? If this is true, and you need to cut / fit your decks around each rib, you will need to water proof the space between the rib and the side of the boat at least at the elevation where the deck meets the rib.

This may be 2 to 4 inches worth of glue or sealant on the rib. Depending on if you are doing a full "Canyon" style deck or just a partial compartment (maybe front and back with an open center) will determine if you seal all ribs or just some of them. If you want fully watertight bulkheads everywhere, then you will need to glue or seal all portions of both the side and bottom ribs assuming you are using the ribs as your bulkheads. Have fun, take your time! Cheers, Robb

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