Wooden Boat People
By McKenzieDriftBoat.com
Whitewater Obsession....
Gentlemen of the canyon. I am a simple fly fisherman but have recently gotten such a kick out of running my boat through the canyons of the Rogue that I am thinking about "obsessing" over bigger water in a deeper canyon. Please advise. I will need to build a whitewater boat, gain experience in the "ways" of big water and then go to the GC in a few years to satisfy my obsession. What steps do you suggest? How long does it take to get a permit? Should I stick with Steelhead from a drift boat?
GH
GH
Views: 520
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tom Martin on
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Hi Greg, It's funny cause I am a simple boater who loves to hike. Don't know a THING about fishing and don't want to, but i boat to hike. And so i built a boat to run the Grand to go hiking! Bottom line..No Worries! Your water reading skills make you a great GC boater already. Remember, everyone has a first time. Grand Canyon was recently discribed to me as Class VI logistics for Class IV water.
Winning the lottery to be a permit holder is the best thing that can happen to anyone in the whole wide world. That's one reason whay it's so hard...sigh. That said, getting a permit for this time of year (December, January, and even into early February) is easier. If you can go at very short notice in the dead of winter, your chances are the best.
If you are not fussy, there are a number of folks looking for folks to join their winter trip right now. You can see some of those invites by looking at the yahoogroup here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rafting_Grand_Canyon/
Someone just posted about looking for folks to join a Feb 9 trip.
So that's the short course on "how to". Next, you'll need to build a decked boat, though I have once seen open drift boats running the Grand. Those folks KNOW THIER STUFF! They are few and far between. The more gear you can haul, the more you will be invited. Most folks will build a Rogue River Dory for this purpose, to carry passengers and all the "stuff" GC boaters boat with. Personally, I'm thrilled to have built a McKenzie River dory, and while i can only carry one passenger and not much gear, this boat is a sports car, and now I like boating as much as i like hiking! :>)
Hope this helps, and this is NOT rocket science. GC trips with the right folks can be as close to heaven as it gets here on earth... all the best, tom
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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Christensen on
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I agree with what Tom has written, aside from not wanting to fish - if the Grand Canyon had steelhead I would never leave. You can find a lot of information about navigating the permit process and (hopefully) eventually obtaining a permit, on the River Runners for Wilderness website: rrfw.org, and in the meantime take any opportunity you have to go down and run the Canyon on another's trip, etc.
I too have a McKenzie whitewater boat, and Tom brings up an interesting point. The big Briggs boats in the canyon were for the most part built to haul passengers on commercial trips with raft support. While I can only take one passenger when my boat is loaded, I bet I can haul nearly as much gear as a 18' Briggs boat with rear passengers. My boat is 15'.
best or luck, Jeremy
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Permalink Reply by Mike Dearing on
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One answer here greg, buy a raft.
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Hi Jeremy, thanks for pointing out that a regular contemporary decked McKenzie whitewater boat can haul a LOT of gear. This 1950's replica boat we built doesn't haul much as in the 50's, they didn't bring a stove, propane, a cooler, pacco pads, chairs, a water filter, lanterns, or any Groover gear.
Mike, yes, Greg "could" buy a rubber raft, but he's a hard boat kinda guy. While he'd be glad to be in Grand Canyon, he'd be wishing he was in a wooden boat as he rowed that rubber raft along :-)
Best to you all, tom
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Mike, as Martin Litton would say, "Rafts are ugly. Dories are beautiful." I have a raft and it gets the job done. But when I do a trip in the dory, it is a much richer experience.
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Tom, Jeremy, and everyone else, I made that comment for a reason and it a damn good one, IMO. Yes Greg could build a dory just for running the canyon, but unless he moves south where the rivers are bigger, or he can get in the big ditch every year, I think it would be ridiculous to do so. No offense meant here Greg, please dont take this the wrong way!
Now if he bought a 14 or 16 foot raft he could run the canyon and every other river he's ever dreamed about running right here in the pacific northwest, and there are a whole hell of a lot of em, trust me. So what I'm getting at, obviously, is the practicality of it all. If Greg is independently wealthy and can own a whole fleet of boats for special purposes, and has a place to store all these boats, then by all means go for it.
I started my days on rivers in my wood boat with the idea that it was just a tool to get me into fish that I couldn't otherwise access from the bank. Well the more time I spent on the water the more I realized that fishing came a distant second to actually just being on the river. So I find myself now fishing less and less, but I spend way more time on rivers now then I ever have before. My wood boat has been on the water once this year, my aluminum Willie has been out maybe half dozen, yet my rafts have been out 25+ times easily, and most of those on multi day trips.
Rafts do everything a dory or a driftboat can do and more. You can cram everything you could ever want into my 14' boat for a seven day middle fork trip for two. Hit class 5 rivers like the Cal Salmon and Scott the next weekend, either rowing solo or paddling with friends, then roll the thing up when your all done. It takes up a minuscule amount of space in my boat shed compared to my wood boat.
Yes, the allure and romance of a wood river boat is strong, I bought into it, but the more time I spend on the water the more I realize my joy of being there has nothing to do with the craft I am floating in, but everything to do with the people whom I float with...
Mike.
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To each his own. I have a wooden dory and a 25 yr old Achilles bucket boat. Both serve a purpose. I built my dory because I couldn't afford a raft at the time. I spread the cost of building my boat out over several months, and a lot of sweat. I bought the raft for the gear hauling capacity and for low water trips. I use them about equally.
You talk about owning several boats for specialized purposes like its a bad thing, but I see you have at least 4 boats in your fleet. So Greg, if you dream of rowing the big stuff in a hard hull, make it happen. The only crime is staying home.
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Permalink Reply by Greg Hatten on
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Amen brother. Not a stay at home kinda guy... not while the dreams are bigger than the past experiences.
Thanks for all the great feedback.... keep it coming.
GH
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Hi Mike, your point that "I realize my joy of being there has nothing to do with the craft I am floating in, but everything to do with the people whom I float with..." is right on and I agree completely!
That said, we have a 16 foot Achillies bucket boat that we get out on the water a couple of times a year. We had no reason to build a wooden boat, except for this history thing has bitten me bad. So off we went and built a wooden boat. Didn't need to take it out and run with other wooden boats last week, and don't need to take it down the Grand next month. Could just as well take the Achillies. But we went with the wooden boat. It's just different.
And YES, you are absolutly correct that a rubber boat can go places as well as a wooden boat. Maybe sometimes better, though i am no expert on that. And we treat our rubber boat a lot rougher than we have treated the woodie so far. Rocks smocks. Surging eddy at camp? Who cares. Bump into another boat? No biggie
But, there's something about a wooden boat. It's easier to row, and while a pain in the bum to fix if you hole it, it's just a whole lot more fun to row. That's all I'm saying.
My wooden boat's footprint is about as big as my raft's footprint, when i include the frame, gear boxes, cooler, and other stuff i take on the raft.
Please be sure I am NOT wanting to get into a debate on the merrits of a rubber boat VS a woodie. Won't go there. Greg asked about going into a deeper canyon with rougher water in a wooden boat and how to do that, that's all.
Hope this helps, best to you all, Tom
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Permalink Reply by Karl Mueller on
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A wise man once told me, "now remember Karl, boats are like dogs. A poor man is allowed to have as many as he wants."
Heck, my income stream is so modest it wears a burka and i have two myself. Greg-if you got the itch to build a big decked over Mckenzie for the big water, GO FOR IT!
If you need an extra hand, you know how to find me.
oh, and Greg buddy, I am not saying anything about your financial situation-only that finances should never stop a guy from owning lots of boats!
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I will be the first to admit I have to many boats. I actually have five. Here's how I ended up with them all.
My wood boat was first. I built it for the reasons I stated above and for the reason Jeremy stated too. I spread out the cost of building it over time.
Willie was next. The reason I own this boat is IMO its the best damn driftboat I have ever rowed for the river I fish the most The Rogue. I also bought it because I used my wood boat a lot and I finally did something similar to what Greg did to his and I lost faith in its "toughness." My aluminum boat has taken hits much harder then the one that broke my wood boat, plus there is zero maintenance to it. I leave it outside all year, and believe me we get all forms of weather up here in our little town sitting on top of a 4000 ft basin.
16' Lowe Johnboat/35hp Johnson. I hunt ducks out of this boat and occasionally bass fish from it.
14' SOTAR sb. I bought this boat after I flogged my first raft, an Aire, for a year and it was not wearing well at all. The SOTAR has it all over the Aire in terms of what its made out of. I can not believe how tough this boat is. My wife was the one that thought "rafting looks like fun.' Which was code for, I'm sick of sitting in the front of this driftboat bored out of my mind. This was also around the time when I wanted to start trying more difficult rivers. The harder rivers here in Oregon are smaller then what you Grand Canyon guys are used to seeing. There steep and full of huge rocks in all the wrong places(see my pics on this site of the Illinois for a good example.) A raft or cat is the ONLY way to navigate these type of rivers. A hard hulled boat other then a kayak is not an option.
14' SOTAR catboat. I ended up with this boat by trading a guy some of my labor for it. It is a fair solo boat, but the tubes are pretty big for that. Its my go to boat for the knarly really nasty rivers. If you have never rowed a cat, you are missing out. Spins, pivots and stops on a dime. Goes through big waves instead of over them like a raft or driftboat. Makes most rapids almost a class easier IMO. Cons, if you overload it, they become a total pig losing all the good attributes to them.
If things pick up next year I will be selling at least one, and it might be my woodie simply because I dont use it. I also might unload my Johnboat as I haven't hunted in the last three years, but we'll see. My catboat I will sell eventually only to get a smaller one. The new 12.6' SOTAR legend tubes are the shit for solo boating, which is what I do all winter, since my wife has no desire to boat when the the rivers are high, and the snow and rain are flying. The willie I will keep cause its the perfect rogue fishing machine,
But... that brings me to what I wanted to say even though nobody is asking, if I could have only have/afford one river boat its the 14' raft. It does everything all these other boats do, plus it will haul more gear/wieght that the others can only dream of doing. For me its a no brainer.
Mike
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Permalink Reply by lhedrick on
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Doesn't sound like too many boats to me. I really like those SOTARs. If I were you I would get another 16 footer also.
While I have no air filled boats, I do think they have more general use then drifters but, I would never want to fish from one. For low water on September trips they make more sense then loading up a dory and bouncing off the rocks.
What I don't like about rafts is how slowly they respond to the oars as compared to a dory. The solid hull is just more fun.
Last week I floated with Tom, Kyle, Morgan and Lincoln. We boat swapped on day one and the difference in the behavior of the boats was substantial. Kyle's replica of the "Music Temple/Susie-Too" tracks straight. It will spin when requested but seems to like a straight line. Tom's new GEM moves in all directions very quickly. Still not sure about going down river square end first. Just seems kind of strange. Lincoln's 17 foot custom double ender was my favorite by a large margin.
I will say that aluminum is just not for me. Probably the toughest thing on the river but I will pass on aluminum for a lot of reasons even if I could build one.
How about numbers. A person goes out and buys a new Hyde/Claka/Boulder with oars trailer etc. The big decked boulder will set you back 17000 plus. The same for the incredible artwork or Jason up in Montana. I can build 3 boats for that.
If only I could row all three at one time.
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Since this thread started under the heading of Whitewater Obsession I will add one new comment. The hydraulics and eddy lines in the Grand Canyon are not like anything I see on other smaller rivers. While rowing a 16 foot Tatman with a chine cap I was startled at how much chine dip there was. It really caught me off guard. If a person went into a hole and got a bit sideways it seems it could be enough to roll the boat over quickly. My stitch and glue boats just don't behave that way. I have always wondered why not cut the cap 1/2 inch higher and put a 60 degree bevel on top so the water can flow over it a bit smoother? You frame builders are the experts on this and I wonder if any of you have tried this.
I can hear the response now. Just accept the behavior and learn how to row, that's the way we build them, it adds to the challenge.
L
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