Whitewater Obsession....

Gentlemen of the canyon. I am a simple fly fisherman but have recently gotten such a kick out of running my boat through the canyons of the Rogue that I am thinking about "obsessing" over bigger water in a deeper canyon. Please advise. I will need to build a whitewater boat, gain experience in the "ways" of big water and then go to the GC in a few years to satisfy my obsession. What steps do you suggest? How long does it take to get a permit? Should I stick with Steelhead from a drift boat?
GH

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Permalink Reply by Herb Jacobsen on December 8, 2009 at 7:50am
L,

I have experienced the chine catching a boil and shooting us off in the wrong direction. This was on the MF in Hancock Rapid. I was in my 17X52 Tatman near the end of the rapid and a boil caught us and threw us into the first big wave sideways. I actually thought we were going to roll. The folks below us said they saw the whole bottom of the boat.

The boat recovered and we had about 6 inches of water aboard. That sure caught my attention.

When I first went to Bristol Bay,AK to commercial fish, one of the old timers told me "Herb, up here it is always a cat and mouse game and you are always the mouse." I have tried to remember that any time I have been on any water.
Permalink Reply by David Jensen on November 24, 2009 at 8:07pm
Hi Greg, I thought I had responded to the part of your post about experience to train up for the GC, but I don't find it. Locally, the Illinois, the Owyhee (3 Forks to Rome section), and the Middle Fork in ID. All of these provide big water challenges above the Rogue. I've done them in my Keith Steele woodies, and they are a challenge and learning experience. I've never been down the GC, either as dude or rower, but I want to. A couple of decades ago, Martin Litton invited Dave Helfrich and I to go with him and row, but we didn't get it done. We were to use Martin's big fiberglass boats. Locally, Steve Schaefers has done it in a woody.

I'll be out Friday or Sunday tossing flies at Steelies on the McKenzie. Hope to see you.

David
Permalink Reply by Greg Hatten on November 25, 2009 at 7:02am
Very good... I'll be out doing the same - Ben & Kay's "down". I'll look for you.
GH
Permalink Reply by Mike Dearing on November 25, 2009 at 7:55am
Ya know when I read the post above my first instinct was to just let it go, but now I think I better not. To imply that boating the the Illinois or the upper Owhyhee in a hard hulled boat is just a step up from the Rogue on a public forum is not ok. Did you stop to think that a comment like that might make guys actually think doing so is no biggy? Sorry, but this is reckless at least, and misleading to the extreme. I'm not doubting that you have done both, but what you need to say is that doing so can only be done at certain lower flows and doing so even then is extremely risky. The Ilinois doesn't really show her teeth until somewhere around 2000cfs and above. I have video of our groups run at green wall at flows just below 4000cfs if you would like to see them. If you or anyone else would like to join us on a high water Illinois trip in your driftboat shoot me a line, I would love to film it from my raft....I've not been down the Upper Owyhee yet, but I have seen video of widowmaker at high flows and its one of the meanest looking death traps Ive ever seen.

Mike
Permalink Reply by David Jensen on November 25, 2009 at 11:05am
Didn't mean to set you off, Mike. We, Steve Schaefers, Steve Hessel, Carl Juza, 2 guys now dead (not from the trip!) did the Illinois in Keith Steele boats about 20 years ago. We ran everything until just above the Green Wall (little pocket beach on the left). We took the line decks, front seats, and gear out and then did a portage over/through the bolder to just below the wall. The portage was exhausting, and with several bruises, minor sprains Put 'em back together and finished. It was, as I wrote earlier, a challenge. Particularly running until just above the Green Wall, and also Submarine Hole. On the 3 Forks-Rome run we (Schaefers, Hessel again) ran them all. Yes, Widowmaker (and others) were formidable. That trip was also about 20 years ago in our Steele boats. We were in our 30's and 40's then, so stronger. Now that I think about it, the late Tom Warlick was 58 on the Illinois trip. Dave Helfrich and I did the very, very upper Owyhee (Duck Valley reservation to 3 Forks) in rafts. Same cautionary principles applied.

I accept your criticism that I could have added a cautionary sentence to the effect that no one should attempt a first time adventure on any river with any Class IV's without knowing the safest water level, having scouted the Class IV's, having discussed in detail the trip with knowledgable folks, and having proper equipment. Indeed, both the middle and upper Owyhee and the Illinois are not only largely roadless, but trailless too for extended portions. The group needs to be prepared to deal with all medical problems. Count on no cell phone coverage.
Permalink Reply by Robb Grubb on December 6, 2009 at 5:03pm
Greg,

Dreams are like leaves on a tree, some blow away in the wind, some get eaten by bugs, some fall into the river and get a free river trip and some actually solidify...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being "boat poor". The comments on this subject are truly entertaining and informing, if you keep with it long enough you will probably own, build, sell, wreck, lose and buy many boats.

As far as obsessing over one stretch of river, each type of river may dictate a certain type of boat to use. Someone said "being there" is the important part and not the type of contraption you are in, pretty smart. The first time I ran Blossom Bar on the Rogue was on my day off when I worked a summer at Paradise Lodge as a teenager, I was in my brand new state of the art "life jacket", it was orange. You wouldn't take a sports car up the side of a mountain in deep muddy ruts, and a jacked up 4x4 looks pretty silly in downtown LA on the strip. I think if I rowed my wood dory down the Illinois I would be too stressed out and not enjoy the trip as much as I did bouncing my 14 foot raft down it instead.

I own an open plastic 16 foot driftboat, a half decked 16 foot wood framed dory, a 12 foot whitewater cataraft and a 14 foot self-bailing raft, and am in the planning / building stages of an 18 foot fully decked framed wood dory. Why another boat? because.

The more rivers I run, the more rivers I want to run. I tend to error on the cautious side and chicken out running my wood boat down the new stretch until I see it first in my very forgiving lightly load raft. Just to make sure there are no "sneekers" that could reduce my inventory of wood boats.

It is ironic, one of the folks here said he floats to be able to hike. I wish I could load my boat as light as a hiker loads his or her backpack for the same amount of time camping out in the wild blue yonder! It Seems that I am always looking for a little bit more room and weight carrying capacity, if only we could take advice from our booted friends...

As far as rowing skills, the more you row, the more rowing experience you will have. There are many rivers in your back yard that can prepare you for "most" rivers in a hard boat. Having never run the Grand Canyon section of the Colorado river, I am only speaking from experience, stories and perceptions. The Rogue, North Umpqua, Mckenzie, Santiam, Lake Creek, Siuslaw, Deschutes, Upper Willamette, Owyhee, John Day, Grande Ronde, Idaho Salmon, etc. have characteristics in the summer that can hone your "slow down and rock dodge" skills. The exact same river in the winter with a higher flow turns into a completely different river and can give you the opportunity to experience higher volume water which is a very different animal. Huge eddy fences, standing waves that change in an instant and topple on top of you takes a different skill set and reactions than the low, slow water rock gardens on the same river the summer before.

It's like having two different rivers in one!!

Have fun building your new boat,

Cheers,

Robb Grubb
Outdoor Ventures
www.RiverTraining.net
Permalink Reply by Greg Hatten on December 7, 2009 at 4:53pm
Thanks Robb, for the great response.
What I've learned from this site and this post is - pick the river (and the level you want to run it) and then pick the boat. I have a number of rivers on my list - but hey, it's a journey and that's the whole point of the thing I suppose.
For the Illinois and the Middle Fork I'll need a raft, for Lake Creek and the Owyhee I need a little pontoon, a "Cat" would be ideal for the John Day and Deschutte's, for the Colorado - I'll need to build a classic Double Ender Brigg's Dory, and I'll just keep running my "Obsession" on the McKenzie, Willamette, Siuslaw, Santiam, and Siletz... but I've always wanted to build a kayak, and then there's that Adirondack Guide Boat that keeps calling my name....
See you on the river in "some" type of craft... maybe a canoe, or an inner-tube...
GH
OH well

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