Bottom shoe alternatives

Being new to wood boats I understand you veterans have materials, techniques and building practices down to a science. However, since I'm considering building my first boat, I have a question about alternative bottom shoe materials.

 

I understand that UHMW is probably the slickest shoe material out there, provides good protection to the wood boat bottom, but may cause problems to screw holes due to expansion/contraction. I also understand a layer of 20 oz triaxial cloth with several layers of graphite enhanced epoxy makes a good strong bottom when bonded directly to the wood bottom. Both the above methods seem to have their own following of dedicated users, but neither are what I would consider inexpensive. Since this will be my first build following my first rebuild, I'm looking at using "afordable" materials until I get this boat building process down pat.

 

 I hear Dave Z talk about his 1/4" ply shoe. Are there any others out there who use 1/4 ply over a 1/2" boat bottom? What about 1/4 over a 3/8" bottom? Just asking. What issues are there with using a wood shoe?

 

And what about flormica? I hear it mentioned as well. I have worked with flormica. It seems like a very tough, slippery, lightweight and impact resistant material. I can get it for $40 / sheet. It can be glued on and peeled off with heat. It seems like a reasonable alternative. Ideas?

 

Also, there is a product called FRP. Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic panels come in 4x8' sheets and are used on bathroom walls. They are glossy white or beige, are very hard and slippery (scratch resistant), but have a bumpy orange peel textured surface which may create too much drag. They cost about $30 per sheet and can also be glued and removed fairly easily. Asside from the potential drag issue, these panels seem like they would work well to me. Anyone ever try it?

 

For my first boat I am leaning toward 1/4 ply shoe over a 3/8 ply bottom on a 12' trapper square ender, oiled inside and out. My alternative would be a straight out 1/2 ply oiled bottom with no other protection under the assumption I may have to replace (or protect) it in the near future.

 

All these questions because weight is a big issue for me as it is very likely I'll be dragging this boat 50 yards or so to the water on a regular basis.

 

Awesome forum by the way. The book is awesome as well.

 

thanks..

troy

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Permalink Reply by mitchell on March 29, 2010 at 8:03am
I can't lend any information about your boats coverings other than the plywood shoe. My boat has had the same plywood shoe since 1968. I bought the boat in 2001.

At that time the shoe was badly pitted. Small chips out of the plywood the size of a dime to the size of a 50 cent piece. The bottom also had a layer of gluvit on it. I sanded the gluvit off, back filled the chip holes with west marine epoxy and wood dust. I let that set, then sanded the bottom smooth. I then used two quarts of coat-it (epoxy-graphite) on the shoe. When spreading the coat-it, i used one quart at a time, letting the first coat set. After it was set I lightly sanded it before adding the second coat. Slick as a whistle.

I re-do the above process about every other year now, maybe every third year. Depends how many rocks i find during my drifts. Seems like I'm avoiding more rocks every year. Good sign
Permalink Reply by Jayson Hayes on March 29, 2010 at 9:46am
If your going to be dragging your boat alot a would recommend you use a uhmw shoe, it will add a bit of weight but will be worth it when sliding over rocks or anything else, i would think if your constantly dragging over terrain epoxy and graphite will need to be repaired more often than you would like to. i just removed the uhmw shoe off of one of my boats a few moths ago for the first time in 10 years and only had to throw some wood dowel and epoxy in the holes for repair, bottom still looked brand new with no water damage. formica would probabley be a little to brittle so i would stay away from that one, good luck
Permalink Reply by Greg Hatten on March 29, 2010 at 1:26pm
Troy, I have UHMW on the bottom of my boat and I like it because I can slide it over rocks in the river or rocks at the take out and not worry about any damage to the wood... the stuff takes a beating and really protects the bottom of my boat. It works well in the Willamette Valley because temperatures are moderate and the rivers are consistently cold. When the UHMW gets "hot" it expands (quickly) and will put a lot of strain on your screws... eventually, the leverage will cause bigger holes and a loose bottom. It's not a big problem around here - but in hotter climates like Montana, Wyoming, and CA - it can be a real challenge - that's why, I'm told, you don't see it used too much outside of the Willamette Valley.
GH
Permalink Reply by Dave Z on March 29, 2010 at 4:34pm
One thing not mentioned that may go without saying- Make sure you use Marine Fir for your floor(s). If I had a do-over, I'd opt to buy 5/8" fir for the bottom and still use the 1/4" false bottom/skid shoe. Not that my 1/2" bottoms aren't holding up, but thicker fir is tougher fir. I did a "hammer test" on a piece of 1/2" meranti and 1/2" fir. 3 pound maul as hard as I could. I put the maul through the Meranti. The fir had an impact fracture, but was in tact. I probably have pics somewhere.

Formica intrigues me. Maybe even for just the section that gets hit, You don't have to skid-shoe the entire bottom. On a 16' DE (out of Rogers book) we'd be talking about the section of bottom between frames 3 and 7 or so. Formica is thin enough and would laminate nicely. Hmmmm.......I believe some original boats didn't have full-length shoes. Oh Roger, where are ya boy?!

However, I do wonder about the impact resistance. I've said over and over here (Probably to the point that bores some) that I like the skid show for the impact resistance. Our summer low water results in many hits right under the front seat, and I have zero internal impact fractures. On my old boats with graphite/glass, they are destroyed on the inside, but yet still functional.

You could go ultra cheap too... I don't know where you are located, but if you stick with your plan of a 1/2" bottom, just oil the heck out of it, and tack on a CDX grade 1/4" sheet. Oil the heck out of it.

We drag quite a bit, and a wet plywood bottom slides just fine when everyone is pulling. If you leave the fat guy in the boat (me) its pretty rough on the other boys!
Permalink Reply by Lawrence E. Long on March 30, 2010 at 5:30am
Troy: My 17 ft Tracy O'brien has 3/8"sides ,1/2"bottom with a 1/4" shoe added. While this one is too big/heavy to drag 50 yards I would think you could add a 1/4 shoe to your 3/8 bottom to keep the weight down. I epoxied the 1/4" shoe to the 1/2" bottom so that if I had to remove the whole shoe rather than "patch " the shoe. Having used a heat gun to remove misscut planks/epoxy joints in the past you should be able to "lift" the 1/4 shoe off with a putty knife, pry bar and lots of time. The shoe will get scorched in the process- but you will be getting rid of it anyway. All PW was DF
Good Luck

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