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Permalink Reply by Dave Z on May 24, 2010 at 6:30am

If quicker working time is the issue, Use RAKA epoxy and buy different hardeners. Hardeners can be mixed and adjusted base don your ambient temp. Their fast cure can be almost too fast if you mix up a 8-12 oz. batch on a 70 degree day.

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Permalink Reply by chris towles on May 24, 2010 at 8:17am

i have some west systems that came with the boat. it should be enough to glass the sides and the hull plus a few flow coats, but it will be cutting it close. would hate to use what i have for bonding interior parts and run out by the time i get to the hull. was also looking for something a little less expensive, something i could find locally, and something that sands and cleans up better since the intrior will be oiled. any other suggestions?

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Permalink Reply by Lawrence E. Long on May 24, 2010 at 11:29am

Chris: See if you can find Weldwood Resorcinol Glue. Made by "DAP" I think-waterproof,2 part resin and powder. As I recall you can clean up the "squeeze out" with water. The 3M products 5200 and 4200 are messy to work with and any excess has to be removed before it sets up- as is the "construction" adhesive. I have been told that Gorilla Glue expands like a foam and is also a PITA to remove.
Good Luck

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Permalink Reply by Scott Hepler on May 24, 2010 at 1:06pm

Chris, just my 2 cents. I don't know exactly what you are gluing so I will just ramble a bit. If you have any wood that is long grain to long grain I would use titebond III, the test, over and over show it has the best strength of any bonding agent, but the joint has to be perfect. If you have long grain to long grain but at 90 deg angle like in a lap joint, if the mating wood surfaces are perfect titebond would work fine, if rough I would epoxy. If there are any plywood or cross grain situation or if any gaps are present, I would use thickened epoxy. I don't know if you have a woodcraft near you but they sell system 3 epoxy. With the fast hardener most of your work will be set in an hour at 70 deg. I used their quick fillet and it sets even faster and is very very easy to use. Most of the woodworking mags have done a test on the holding power of every kind of adhesive, and time and time again titebond on woodworking joinery is superior. For every other kind of joint, like plywood and end-grain nothing beats epoxy. I would not under any conditions use the polyurethane gules, such as Gorilla Glue. Good luck and show us some pics.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Baker on May 24, 2010 at 1:44pm

Hey Chris,
I have used plastic resin glue a lot on interior pieces and really like it. It is a powder that you mix with water, has a good open time, water resistant and is strong as the wood itself (although I would not use it on anything that has a great deal of stress on it). I get mine at Ace, it is made by Weldwood or DAP.
Mike

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Permalink Reply by John Greenleaf on May 25, 2010 at 7:11am

Chris, I have used titebond iii for a number of applications on both the boat I'm building and my other boat - it has weathered pretty well to date on a boat that has spent a good bit of time outside. Having used it extensively in cabinet making, I have pretty good faith in the stuff. In terms of strength, it is quite comparable to anything you can use. for my current build (which I plan to keep in the garage, I used it for the lap joints on the boat frames, the seats and the removable floor sections. As an example of the strength; on a test frame made with old knotty pine and two drywall screws, I could stand the frame on its side (like making a letter "C") and put all my weight (~175 lb) on the other side (top side end of the "C") and it would not break (that is a lot of torque on that little joint). However, unlike epoxy joints be sure to really clamp it together hard while it sets up (this takes about 3 hrs or so depending on temp). Also, I would not use it where water contact may occur for extended periods (or if you plan on leaving the boat outside and are the forgetful type that might neglect to take the drain plug out). If there was any doubt regarding water or if there were any "gaps" in the joint, I went with epoxy or 5200. One last note, wipe up any excess titebond 3 with warm water and a paper towel - it will clean up nice and look good with any finish - the alternative is a boat-load of sanding. This pretty much goes with any adhesive you use, and especially the 5200.

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Permalink Reply by chris towles on May 25, 2010 at 11:01am

thanks everybody for your replies. to answer questions...i have a ken hankinson design boat. bought it a month ago gutted and have been working to try and get it back together.

the boat used to be a highside, but i chopped the height down to the size of a standard mckenzie (24" at the oarlocks). i have to now attach the nosecap, and then the inwales. my gunwales have a lip rabbited into them so they cover the top of the plywood and seal it. i was looking for a glue to attach this piece(inside gunwale)...outwales will be attached after i get the sides glasses so that the gunwale covers the top glass edge..might use epoxy for that application and do it prior to paint. just as to get the best glue/glue bond possible

also, my boat is not a framed boat or a stich and glue boat..its a bit of a hybrid. it has a chine log and batten but no frames. the boat does have integrated running boards on the sides. the frames that support the boards are made with 2x material doug fir and are quite beefy. was looking for a glue for attaching these pieces, but doesn't sound like tbIII is my guy here because there are definetly gaps to fill between the back of the frames and the plywood sides. i didn't have much for a template for this so i made my own out of cardboard. for the angles on the backs i didn't really have any idea what they were, so i just got out the 4" grinder with a flap wheel and a hand sander and went to town, getting them as close as possible. these pieces will also be screwed thru from the outside of the boat. i guess from what it sounds like here, filet material is my best bet. my original plan was to glue the heck out of it and then fill the gaps with either filet or bedding compound (most likely 101). with the judicious use of painters tape i'm hoping i can make these joints still look nice once the boat is oiled. i also have a gap to fill between the chine log and the plywood sides. sounds like filet here, but mabye 101 too?

the last thing i need a glue for is general cabinet making stuff. part of what keeps this boat design stiff enough without any frames is front and rear bulkhead cabinets. i plan to install supports for the cabinet tops and fronts (1x2). these supports will also be bolted thru from the outside and the tops will sit on them. looking for a glue for that. the entire inside cabinets will get a coating of epoxy too so i don't anticipate any water getting at that glue.

i was originally looking for something that i could have around this week for installing all the random little pieces one by one. i hate having to mix a batch of epoxy for something really small like my cabinet supports for instance. i live in jackson wyoming and it seems like almost everything has to come in on a truck. i may head down to ace and see if i can find a real small bottle of tbIII for little stuff and just try and stretch the west systems that i have...just a little worried about running short on resin for when i go to glass the hull.
chris

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