good trick for smooth 5200 joints...

so i had the tub refinishers at one of my jobs the other day, and we got to talking about different kinds of caulk (dont ask).  as anybody who has worked w/ 5200 in the past can surely attest, it is not easy to smooth into a clean joint.  with cheap painters caulk, you can lick your finger or dunk it in water (depending on your level of hygeine, i prefer the former), but it doesnt seal a boat worth a darn.  well, this guy whos been refinishing tubs and dealing w/ higher end silicon/polyurethane caulks for a lot longer than me had a good tip.  he fills an old spray bottle w/ mineral spirits, sprays a bit on the caulk, and says it acts like water does on cheap DAP caulk and the like.  another trick i have used in the past is to use an old pointy spoon to get clean joints.  thrift stores will have a good selection if you dont have enough to spare (im down to one small spoon and i use it for grapefruit).  i know they sell caulking tools now but that just seems a bit over the top.  i only mention this as i am getting to that stage in my current build and thought some of you might use these, or have other tricks.

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Permalink Reply by Greg Hatten on February 3, 2011 at 8:14am

Excellent tip Justin... thanks man.  I will use that one for sure!!

GH

Permalink Reply by justin nicola on February 3, 2011 at 1:05pm
i also remember reading somewhere that dipping your finger in dish soap will smooth it out nicely, but i don't want to leave dish soap residue in my boat.  maybe useful in some applications though...
Permalink Reply by John Greenleaf on February 3, 2011 at 1:54pm

FYI, the mineral spirits also work well when and if you get it in your hair (don't ask me how I know this).

While I've used it on the caulking, I've also found it cleans up the mess nice - just make sure you have enough once you get started. I really like to slather the 5200 on...

One other thing, I found acetone to work well on cleaning tools and even spots that you may have (unfortunately) missed during the initial clean up and have since dried. The 5200 needs to soak it in though. If you put tools in a jar of it, the dried 5200 will peel right off in a little while. It will also have a similar effect with dried 5200 on the wood (but not as good). In this case though, I have soaked a towel or rag in acetone and laid it on the offending spot for an hour or two. In contrast, if you just wipe it on the spot, it seems to volatilize too quick and doesn't soak in. Usually, after a good soak you can get it off with something sharpish or sometimes even something abrasive. But...Its definitely not as easy as cleaning it up good while its still wet/uncured. J.G. 

Permalink Reply by Michael Rosso on March 8, 2012 at 6:47am

John,

I mistakenly used 5200 to assemble the frames of my boat project.  Needless to say I thankfully discovered the error of my ways and am in the process of disassembling the frames.  the 5200 has been setting up for about 72 hours.   The frames pulled apart nicely, but I'm left with that 5200 (never really set up) to clean.   It sounds like you would recommend mineral spirits for the job?  I have both mineral spirits and acetone.   I'm using a razor scraper to remove most of the 5200 but I'm obviously left with some residue that's partially soaked into the wood.   As I'm going to re-glue the joints using a thickened epoxy I'd like to make sure that most if not all of it is removed.

Thanks!

Permalink Reply by John Greenleaf on March 8, 2012 at 7:44am

Michael, If you are intending on just cleaning up the pieces to then re-glue, I'd use acetone. Best method - soak glued ends in a coffee can of the stuff. Note: If you just wipe it on, most will just evaporate and it will not be nearly as effective. With soaking, the stuff peels right off (works good with tools too)- don't even need a razor. I would use mineral spirits when you are cleaning up excess glue (like around glued joints that you want to keep glued). Acetone really seems to have an effect on the 5200 and I'd keep it away from anything you want to keep glued together.

Now, I'm not so sure that it will remove a lot of the 5200 that really penetrated the wood, but then again, as long as you get the surface stuff off and maybe give it a light sand, you should be ok when you go to re epoxy - though I'd give the pieces some time to dry out - not sure of the effect of acetone on epoxy (though you could easily test this). J.G.

Permalink Reply by Michael Rosso on March 8, 2012 at 10:02am

Excellent.

Thanks for the advice.   I'm not sure why, but I'm apprehensive to let one whole end of my frame completely soak in acetone!   That's nasty stuff.   I'll try it on a test piece and see how it goes.   I really liked your idea of soaking a rag and letting it lay on the glued area.

I wonder if it's evaporation we're trying to prevent, then perhaps a soaked rag, then wrap the end in Saran Wrap??   Hmmm..

I'll post my findings.  :)

Permalink Reply by John Greenleaf on March 8, 2012 at 10:32am

Yea, I agree - the whole end soaking thing could have unintended consequences. While I've  been pretty liberal with the stuff, it is pretty nasty stuff. I'm pretty certain that at least short-term it will not damage the wood to a significant extent. I know it is sometimes used to remove oils in oily woods (like teak) prior to gluing. So i would guess there could be some effects to the color or oil content (like minor bleaching). May not be a big deal if you are planning an interior oil finish in the long run (then you basically, re-oil the wood). Though, better safe than sorry especially depending on the finish your choosing because the end grain will really wick that stuff up.

Also, I think the cellophane would be a good idea, assuming it does not react to the acetone. I'm pretty certain it is the evaporation that is the problem - it is some really volatile stuff (makes your hands cold if you get it on them from the massive rate of evaporation). Let us know how it turns out. J.G.

Permalink Reply by Michael Rosso on March 9, 2012 at 8:59am

Hi John,

Well the results are in.  ...drumroll....   the acetone wins by a landslide!   I scraped the excess 5200 off with a thin razor scraper and just put a little acetone on a rag, wiped it over the adhesive left inside the wood pores and presto!   It's like it wasn't even there to begin with.  I didn't even have to scrub.  Just a light wipe.

The adhesive I removed had been setting up for a good four days.  One of which the joint had been pulled apart and exposed to the air.

My advice would be wear a mask and some nice, thick rubber gloves.  The acetone ate through 2 fingers of my thin nitrile gloves in roughly 30 seconds.

Thanks again, J.G.

Permalink Reply by Michael Rosso on March 9, 2012 at 9:00am

I forgot to mention that I tried mineral spirits first and it didn't do squat for me.

Permalink Reply by John Greenleaf on March 9, 2012 at 9:20am

Good to hear- the mineral spirits only works when it is still wet. once the curing process begins, it won't work. I'm doing a little experiment based on our discussion. Namely soaking wood for an extended time in acetone - we'll see how it turns out. Short term - no real effects, tho as expected the wood really wicks it up. I may test samples of the wood in shear and compression to see if there is any long-term damage. We'll see how motivated I am in the next week or so...Thanks for sharing.

Permalink Reply by Jack Rose on March 13, 2012 at 10:28pm

Michael,

Steve Smith, the guy who makes CPES, touts a process where he soaks MEK into paper towels, then covers it with aluminum foil in order to remove old coats of varnish.

But that sounds pretty similar to what you just discovered on your own.

Jack

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