Chine log installation

So to the point of installing the chine log (not using a strong bow, building like Roger suggests in his book). This part is very difficult with only one person with limited space (closed garage cause its 17 here), so suggestions? I cant even get the 18' piece started and when I was about to get it to slide into the first frame... it cracked. To the epoxy fix!

 

Are there any tricks to getting this piece in? Would it be possible to install it in smaller pieces rather then one large piece or is one long piece needed for strength (apparent by my cracked log).

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Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on March 8, 2011 at 9:57am

My first "build" was a kit boat from Ray Heater.  The smart cuts were done for me and his excellent construction manual answered all the questions that you are now posing to the forum.  The process is not always intuative and you will spend a lot of time scratching your head.  This is good as trial and error is a very good, if unforgiving teacher.  You have bitten off a big chunck for your first build and the Rogue boat is probably the most difficult of the boats in Roger's book.  As you have observed, there are lots of folks out there who are willing to help you out.  Sort through the info as free advice is sometimes worth what you pay for.

A trick for getting the chine log into the notches is to clamp a piece of scrap parallel to the inside edge of the chine notch.   Try every other frame and use this protruding piece as a guide to work the chine log into place.  The chine log is the backbone of the entire frame system so installing it in pieces is not a good idea.  This is also the part of the build where a case of beer will buy you some extra hands.  Even the most experienced builders will agree that you can't have too many hands at this point.  If you have cut the chine nothes properly, no small feat on it's own, this is still a very tricky manuver that probably breaks more long stock than any other move in the entire build.  Make sure that your chine log is properly tapered in the shape of a parallelagram and that the notches are just big enough to accept it.  Dry fit it first.  The first attempt to install this piece is hard enough without having goo on everthing including yourself.

 

Enjoy.

Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on March 8, 2011 at 10:04am
I just looked at the pictures on your blog post and see that there are no chine notches cut on the frames.  Hopefully those frames are dry fit and held in place with clamps, have been removed and proper chine notches cut.
Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 8, 2011 at 10:12am
The chine notches were not fully cut out in those pics. but they are now. I even sanded them down a bit to be able to fit the chine log more easily. Hopefully I can find a few pairs of hands to help me out. It sucks braking an 18' piece of wood, hopefully it does not happen to often.
Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 8, 2011 at 12:30pm
Do you put 5200 just where the chine log and the sides of the boat touch? Or do you glue the chine log to the frames as well? Roger talks about a floating frame in his book where the glue is only on the sides.
Permalink Reply by Roger Fletcher on March 8, 2011 at 4:28pm
Hey, Ben - looks like you are hard at it. Will go back and read some of your other posts but here's a quick response. A floating chine is one where the chine piece is fastened to the side panel but not anchored to the frames. The older builders preferred not to anchor a fastener directly through to the frame thinking that a floating chine would give the boat more flex if there is a serious impact. I don;t think it makes a bit of difference, but there are many who still like a floating chine. The bedding compund should be applied to the backside of the chine where is meets the side panel. There is no need to bed the chine log to each frame. And A.J. offers a good suggestion -- clamp a piece of lath or scrap board to each frame at the chine notch to serve as a guide for the chine, and the more hands the better. Try to apply bend pressure evenly and carefully along the chine, hence the need for several hands. This boat is one of the more challenging. In fact, Pritchett, Briggs, Pyle and Wooldridge all applied two thinner chine pieces, each 3/8th-inches in thickness. It was kind of hokey but it worked for them. I wouldn't advise their system. Oh, and it helps a lot to bite your lip and utter your favorite mantra. Good luck and take your time. Impatience will sneak up and nip ya.
Permalink Reply by Dave Z on March 8, 2011 at 4:11pm

I installed all of mine in but one on four boats, just cause I was too impatient to wait for help!

 

I find that the sika or 5200 helps that baby slide in.

 

What is the dimension of the chine on yours?  I built the first boat with a 3/4" chine and yes sir, that was a pain.  I broke one too. 

 

All the rest of my boats were made with 5/8" by 2" chine material.  I cut all of my chine chunks out of the frames completely before assembly. 

 

I used a few ratchet straps to pull and hold the bent wood as I installed it.  and lots of clamps. lots of alcohol.  the drinking kind.

 

AJ is right though, making sure that the notches are slightly larger than the chine is critical, When I cut mine out, I cut ON THE LINE and use a thin kerf Japanese saw or hacksaw.  cutting on the line allows just a hair of space. 

 

Good luck.  This is the part of the build that will make you feel like a "boatbuilder."

 

Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 8, 2011 at 10:18pm

WOW not a good day in the garage! First I split one log, then the epoxy i mixed up to fix it did not have enough hardner so its taking forever to set up. Then came the disaster of an evening of trying to get this thing in. Used the supports like suggested, a great help. Measured the distance and found all the angles and the middle with a flexable measuring stick like Roger suggests. Cut chine log to proper measured size and then all down hill! First I couldn't get the piece to fit in any chine slot, so sanded them out... now looks to be WAY to big with huge gaps and uneven connections everywhere. Then thinking I had it in the bag and after a semi dry fit (didnt go all the way in) i applyed 5200 and went for it. Both the front and the back were too long, I couldnt get anything to fit properly. Then it was pointed out to me that the frame #5 seems to pull the sides in un naturally ( I had noticed it eariler but it matches the plans) and wedging the chine log was causing some serious stress on the ply wood sides, causing it to be forced to bend out and look really funny. Unfortunatly I have used ring shank nails so getting the frame out is a no go, so I cut it in half. The boat actually does look better. ROGER: did I just make a HUGE mistake? The sides just looked so weird, now with the tension reliesed the boat does look better. Im just not sure if that is what the boat was suppose to look like or not.

 

Long story short I have lost what confidince I had built up to this point and am now second guessing everything I have already done. And hours of frusterating work and the chine log is still not in, I could not for the life of me figure out how to get where it touches the stem and transom  to be in place. Just one of those days I guess.

 

any advice?

Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 8, 2011 at 11:23pm
My chine log is now about a cm shorter then i measured. Can I still use this and just fill that gap with thickened epoxy? Or do I need to remake the chine blank?
Permalink Reply by Dave Z on March 9, 2011 at 6:08am

Fill it, forget about it.  1cm is nothing to worry about. better yet, cut a piece of wood to match it and glue it in.  We've all been there.  Don't lose hope. 

 

Success after failure = growth.

 

So what, you had to re-make a frame.  It's not the end of the world.  You can correct your mistakes.  Keep your head up and plow through it. 

 

Remind yourself this is supposed to be fun.  and when its all done and you ar ehammering down the river and get the first big bang iin your boat, it won;t matter. its all added character.

 

Best thing  you can do now is drop back, sit in that ever important shop chair and have a cold one or two.  Pull all the power cords for the power tools and relax.  Then come up with a plan.

Run those chines through th eplaner and take off 1/32nd.  make 'em slide in easier.  cut that scarf on the chine.  glue it up with a good mix. re-make that frame for a custom fit.   Listen to Roger and Brad- "listen to the wood"  is very true.  I've followed plans to the letter, to the 16th of an inch and still came up with an unnatural wave in the wood.  The wood is very different than a 2D drawing.  in real life you'll have to make adjustments.

 

When I built the first Trapper (well, the first recreation), I ran into all sorts of problems.  we used a draft set of plans and adjusted all the angles on the sides and even some frame placements to make them fit right.  In the end we nailed it, but it was not without alot of head scratching.

 

Don't worry about those chine notches.  I have one boat that has one side absolutely perfect, tight really well cut, and the other side is a trainwreck.  after a season on the river, mud, dirt, sludge, potato chips, and everything else will find their way in there and seal up the gaps real nice.

 

You'll be alright.  Pep talk over.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Roger Fletcher on March 9, 2011 at 10:23am

Hang in there, Ben. You'll get it. My guess is there are several people on the forum wishing they could be there with you at this moment, me being one of them. One of the problems you may have experienced with frame # 5 is what I call frame warp. The flare of this boat is so great that unless you run a batten across the frame at the sheer at the time of installation the pressure of the panels can distort the frame, push the frames inward and/or bow the bottom frame. I describe this in my instructions for the plans but I don't recall that i address that issue in the book. The other thing to remember is that this a boat, not an airplane and your best instrument for determing fairness is your eye. If you cut the frame in half I assume that you cut the bottm frame which relieved what stress the flare of the panel was creating. You have two options: leave the frame in its new place and sandwich the bottom frame with your framing material. The second is to remove the damaged frame (which can be done  even with ring shanks, unless you also applied adhesive to the side frames) and replace it to the the dimensions that are there. I wouldn't worry about your chine log being short a dite. Dave Z is right. You can find ways to fill that in. I have a rule I use: measure twice, then thrice, and cut but once.

Permalink Reply by Greg Max on March 9, 2011 at 11:12am
Ben, I did the same on my build three years ago.  Ended up with the first chine that I installed .5" short at the transom.  Epoxied a piece of scrap from the chine in there and not a single person has noticed in 3 years and lots and lots of river trips.  As far as I know, It hasn't effected the fishing at all (although I may still pull it out as an excuse for skunking one day!)
Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 9, 2011 at 10:14pm

Got one in and the other is almost there. I ended up starting with it mostly fit in then screwing it from the center out, the transome turned out well but the stem end was a little long so it needed to be sanded down. Now I am going to do the same on the other side.

 

Man 5200 is tough to work with, just gets on everything. I didnt mind it till I came in for the night and tried to tie some flies, not recommended.

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