Screw Distance

How far apart should I space my screws when attaching the siding and bottom to the frames. It would be nice to space them further apart to save screws, but that being said I feel its not a place that I want to skimp on. Maybe every six inches?

 

Also do you glue the side pannels to the frame or just use screws? If so how do you keep glue from going everywhere?

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Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 5, 2011 at 10:08pm
Good advice. Wouldn't it also work to run some 5200 down the side edges of the frame where it is attached to the sides? That may be easier then trying to sneak some in behind the frame, plus im not 100 % sure how im going to deck yet.
Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on March 6, 2011 at 10:35am

Using 5200 as a fillet can work. 

 

If the wood is raw the 5200 will work into the grain and will never come out.  If you are going to paint then it doesn't matter.  If you want to finish bright it will discolor the wood where the 5200 was cleaned up and dives deep into the grain.  If the wood has a coat of epoxy then the 5200 will clean up with solvent without getting into the grain.

 

If you are going to use 5200 as fillet then do that last.  5200 is more flexible than almost every other finish.  If you apply a more brittle finish over the 5200 then the 5200 will flex with use and the finish will crack. 

Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 6, 2011 at 10:32pm
I was hoping to be able to use tan 5200 as a fillet, but I am staining and oiling the inside. So sould I wait to stain all at once after applying the 5200?
Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on March 7, 2011 at 10:27am

If you are going to oil the inside then you are not encapsulating so a fillet isn't necessary.  If water enters the wood from the joint then it can dry through the oil.

 

I recommend no fillet.  If you want to use a glue on the frames then use a small amount of epoxy or even Tightbond III.  5200 doesn't like oil.  You could fillet the joints with 5200 let it dry for a week and then oil the interior over the 5200.  That's a lot of work for not much advantage.

 

The real reason to fillet all those joints is if you are encapsulating. 

Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 7, 2011 at 5:51pm

So what should I do for my compartments? Do I use 5200 as a glue to get a seal where two pieces of the decking touch? Or is oiling a decked boat not recommended? Should I just paint it? I was hoping to oil cause I think it would look really nice.

 

Used no glue on the sides.

Permalink Reply by Scott Hepler on March 7, 2011 at 7:09pm
Ok, so I am really not trying to get under anyones skin, but is it just me or is this thread the best argument for the technique of stitch and glue? Especially if you were going to deck the boat? Don't get me wrong, I love the look of an open framed boat, I hope and fully expect they will be around forever, and continue to be built by people who love the traditional boat building techniques. But it just seems to me that some applications might benifit from another technique in boatbuilding.
Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on March 7, 2011 at 8:10pm

The governing decision is that Ben wants to oil, rather than paint, the interior of his boat.  S&G requires tape and fillet on the joints so most S&G boat interiors are not oiled or at least, the interior hull is not oiled.

 

Stitch and glue is a great technique for building drift boats, especially if they have decks. S&G usually requires 3/8 plywood or at least fiberglass on both sides of the hull material but the biggest difference from a framed boat is that after the build of the hull is complete the S&G boat requires thwarts, bulkheads or other compartments to stiffen the sides. So stitch and glue is a great method for a decked boat.  The lack of frames also ads a little room to the compartments.

 

The framed boat is a rigid structure with the frames in place and can be outfitted with removable parts for large payloads or flexibility of layout without a need for thwarts, bulkheads, or compartments.  If seats and decks are removable then the boats can easily be stacked one inside the other.  This is still an important feature to some outfitters.

Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on March 7, 2011 at 8:19pm

I was only talking about the frames.  I forgot you were going to make compartments.  I would use epoxy to glue the compartments to the sides and frames and would use fillet instead of 5200 to waterproof the compartment.  If you are careful you can keep the fillet bead pretty small.  Any stray fillet sands and covers with the oil to a reasonably natural look. 

 

Because you are going to oil, the plywood for the compartments will be unfinished when you glue the compartments and seal the joints.  The 5200 will not clean from the grain of the plywood and will be very visible when you add the oil finish.   You can test this by putting a dab of 5200 on a scrap of your plywood, then wipe it off with solvent, then oil the board.  I bet that the oil will make the left over 5200 very obvious even if it's color is tan.  

 

I might be wrong, but I don't think so. I've made this mistake with 5200 before.  If you run the test you will know how it will look with your materials.

Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 7, 2011 at 8:33pm

So its looking like I may have gotten way too much 5200 and not enough epoxy, oh well live and learn. The reason I decided to do a traditional boat was for a few of the reasons you mentioned Randy. I am hoping I will be sucessful in making a whitewater fishing convertion boat with removable passenger seats and thigh braces. When removed I was thinkning of trying to rig a frame for 50mm rocket boxes (coming from the rafting world where these are used for everything from poop to food and repair kits I think it would be nice to be able to carry them for longer whitewater trips, they would also fill in the space where a passenger would sit and would keep it from totally filling with water). Plus the framed boat just seemed, TO ME to be easier to understand and build for a first timer (for ME personally, not trying to make a statement about what is better).

 

Looks like Im going to need to learn how to fillet after all. Im sure you all will see a post soon asking something about the subject.

Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on March 7, 2011 at 9:02pm

From the photos on your blog it is obvious that you are doing great and the boat is coming together.  You can use the 5200.  Mask off the areas of the plywood next to the joint where you need to run the fillet bead of 5200.  If you are careful and you use a good masking tape then you wont have to deal with the oil over 5200 in the grain issue. 

 

Run a quick test of the 5200 on a scrap and you will know how careful you need to be. 

Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 10, 2011 at 10:34pm
Do you want to use RingShank nails on the bottom pannel like on the sides? Or do you use screws? Im thinking a few screws in the stem then working back with nails, but it would also make sence to use screws to the chine log.
Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on March 10, 2011 at 11:12pm

The only real reason I use nails on the side is because they are so pretty. 

I screw the bottom down. 

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