To replace or not to replace?

Let me just start out by saying that I will never be going to Lowes for anything ever again. There wood sucks and all their hardware is super expensive. So at the beginning of the build I was using "Select Douglas Fir" from lowes, 1x2x8 that was incorrect dimentions to begin with. Anyway I had made the pieces for my rails and when I went to install them today I ran into some trouble.

 

First the outside of the first side split, though not all the way so it still may be usable. Should I just go ahead and epoxy the crack and glue the pieces in place?

Not the end of the world, but when I went to install the other side the first piece split in half! The funny thing about it was that it broke right next to the scarf joint... but the epoxy held, shows you the straingth of that stuff. So should I re cut the long piece and attach another 1x2 and use the other 12' and hope none of these fail on the river? Or do I go back and try to find some good CVG at a lumber yard and re do all the rails?

Before this the day was going very well though.

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Permalink Reply by Jordan Davis on March 30, 2011 at 8:49pm

I'm sorry to see that happen!  I had it happen once on my chine log (using 3/4" for strength, not ease).  If you look at where the breaks happened, it looks to me like they both followed the grain structure of the wood.  CVG (vertical grain) help to align most of the grain with the length of the wood.  This will help to keep cracks from happening.  Also, if you are using 1x2 you are actually using 3/4 stock (you probably know that, you look like you know what you are doing and are doing great too!).  try ripping or planing that down to 5/8".  It will be sufficient for strength and will bend much nicer.  You should however be able to repair the cracks with epoxy.  If you need to, and I have done this with success before, drill a 1/4" hole through the meat of the crack and insert a dowel to give the wood and epoxy more to grip.  Clamp in place and let dry...  Hope this helps a bit.

 

JD

Permalink Reply by chris towles on March 31, 2011 at 12:27am
i made all my gunnel stock from one piece of  16 ft 2x10 select framing fir, cost me $12. i got it at the lumber yard. i just picked thru the stack until i found a nice clear piece, no scarfing involved. my rail are 5/8 but one of the pieces has  1/4" rabbet lip to cover the end grain plywood. seemed to bend easily and is quite solid when bolted into place. i also trained my stock to bend steadily over the course of a few days, first just over a sawhorse, then bolted in place and let them site for a bit before i glued them up.
Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 31, 2011 at 6:38am

When I got this wood at the beginning of the build I didnt exactly know what CVG means, now I have a BIG note in my book about it. My questions is should I go ahead and just use this wood even though it has now broken on me 3 times total (including one crack in the chine log)? I would hate to get it all installed and looking nice then have it break on the first day when I bump it getting if off the trailer. Once it is installed do you think it will be strong enough to be used?

Permalink Reply by Jordan Davis on March 31, 2011 at 8:25am
I guess I misunderstood.  If the same piece broke 3 times; yes it is time to replace it.  The piece is structurally insufficient now, unless you wanted to take it off, and epoxy the crap out of the breaks and clamp, set and cure for a few days.  Try it again, then see if it breaks.  Or, to save the time, go get a new CVG piece and "listen to the wood", and as Chris did, train your stock to bend (in the direction it is inclined to).
Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 31, 2011 at 8:33am

Im sorry if I was not clear, It was not the same piece that has broken three times, just the doug fir from lowes has broken three times now (all on differant pieces).

 

I am just concerned that the wood will not stand up to the river, but I have never taken one of these boats out before so im not sure if once it gets installed then it will be more durable to bangs.

Permalink Reply by Josh on March 31, 2011 at 7:47am

I had the same thing happen when I was building mine. I just got a couple more pieces w/ as straight of grain as I could find. You could repair them but i have a tough time having broken pieces of wood that have been repaired on my boat (during the building process)...but that's just me. Boat looks awesome!!

 

Josh 

Permalink Reply by Jack Rose on March 31, 2011 at 12:22pm

Ben, that's a heck of a design to take on as your first build, but it's looking great.

Sorry about your gunnel failure, but I'm not sure you can blame it on Lowe's.  Like Jordan says, it looks like they both snapped right where the grain predicted they would.

Given the repeated failure and your new knowledge I think I'd head back to the lumber yard, Lowe's or elsewhere.

But this brings to mind something I was wondering, yesterday, when I was cutting my new oak chines.  I cut a piece of scrap 3/4 plywood as a template to make sure it'd fit in the frame notches and it got me to wondering whether anyone had actually used plywood for their chines and gunnels.

I can think of several pros and cons and possible remedies, but I figured you guys had already covered this ground.

Any thoughts?

 

Jack

Permalink Reply by justin nicola on March 31, 2011 at 2:43pm
you are building a gorgeous boat.  do you really want to know you have a cracked board on it every time you set foot on her for the next ___ years?  i wouldnt.  someone else was complaining about lowes wood recently, and ill tell you the same thing, dont buy wood from lowes or HD!  go to a lumber yard, the guys that work there generally have a good working knowledge of the wood and products they sell, and will generally work hard to gain your business.  by the way ben, what does CVG mean anyway?
Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 31, 2011 at 5:23pm

Clear Vertical Grains. A must, and something that the wood from Lowes lacks. All the pieces that have broken have broken along the grain from pieces of wood that had grains running horizontal to the bend.

 

If I decide to use this wood will it hold once it gets put on the boat? In other words, will being attached to the frames and side pannel add strength and prevent these pieces from braking easily?

Permalink Reply by justin nicola on March 31, 2011 at 5:47pm

thanks for clarifying on the cvg.  once its attached to the frames and side panel it will be stronger, but will still be prone to cracking (in my opinion).  if glued properly, the crack wont happen at the same spot, but thats beside the point.  after looking closely at those pictures, i would not atempt to reuse that wood.  if its pine, its a naturally sappy wood, and thats generally where it has cracked for me in the past (never on a boat though).  have you considered using oak or another hard wood?  most hardwoods tend to have straight grain.  i would bring all the broken wood back to lowes and get my money back.  they have a full unconditional warranty 90 days on everything they sell.  you will spend about twice as much as pine if you get red oak, maybe a little more for white, but i promise it will not crack.  either that or get clear pine or "c or better" pine from a good lumberyard.  sit out there for 30 minutes picking through the wood til you find the perfect pieces. 

 

one more thing, jamestown distributors (which is a sponsor on this site incidentally) has good prices on hardware.  i bought the majority for my build from them. 

Permalink Reply by Dave Z on March 31, 2011 at 6:36pm

Sandy Pittendrigh I believe has laminated Ipe or other woods to make "ply wood" gunnels in the past.  I recall the result was very favorable.  This of course was on a stitch and glue wood boat which means the wood was fully supported against plywood both inside and out - no frames.

 

Don't blame Lowes.  They hardly sell CVG fir, most of the stuff might be A grade, but barely.

On a WW boat like that, I probably would have opted for White oak or Ipe.

 

Ebay for hardware.  do a little digging.  I bought 40 carriage bolts, 1/4-20 stainless steel 4 inches, for 8 bucks plus 5 bucks shipping.  They arrived in three days.  Bought a pound of ring shank bronze nails fro 9 bucks a while back.

 

Sorry bout your breaks, that's heartbreaking, but it has happened to all of us at one point or another. 

I gotta ask about your clamping methods though.  Are you using a ton of clamps every few inches or just a handful of clamps?  Might want to invest in several clamps (harbor frieght cheap ones are good enough) This will assist in bending slowly in small sections.

 

I just noticed something in your pictures-  you should be screwing the outside rail from the inside of the boat every 4 or 5 inches.  I don't see any screws.    The outer rail probably could have been prevented from cracking.

Permalink Reply by Mike Baker on March 31, 2011 at 6:44pm

 

here's my two cents. If you are having trouble bending fir then go with white oak. I have built with both and the difference is amazing. I can usually get fir to bend although I have broken some but the white oak ALWAYS bends much better. Fir for the chine is very difficult to pull off because the wood basically has to bend in two directions.

Dave is right on, Harbor freight for clamps.

Mike

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