Another Newbie Needs Advice

First off I would like to start by commenting on how friendly everyone seems to be on this site. Ok, so here goes: I am just about to start building my first wooden boat, a Classic Rouge River Dory with decking and dry storage. I recently recieved Flecher's Drift Boats and River Dories and have found it to be extreamly helpfull along with this site, however I still have queations about stuff I read online and in the book. So what follows are a few (ish) questions about everything from fiberglass to hatches and latches. Answer any, or all of the questions if you can, or just make fun of my newbie ness (I can handle it, I have been on Mountain Buzz for years). Any and all advice and help will be greatly appreaciated and may lead to more pics of a build from scrach.

Finish: Im looking for a finish that will be very durable and has lighter matinence. So OIL vs. Fiber Glass vs. paints vs. ... not sure what the other options there are. What would be best? What would be the cheapest and easiest for a beginner to apply and deal with? Advantages/Disadvantages? I saw a post about fiberglassing both the inside and outside of the boat, would this be done before the bottem is attached? Is it still flexable enough to bend into place and can you then still put screws through it? This is a hard subject for me so any an all advice is greatly needed and appreciated.

Hatches/Latches: In Fletcher's book it seems the size of all his dry storage areas are based of frame to frame distance. Is this because this is the best way of attaching decking to the boat? Is it possible to do it to the inside of your outer plywood?
Looking for a simple, fairly cheap hatch design and latch that is still effective. Is the design in Fletcher's book the best fit for me (with barrel hinges)?

Framing: In Flecher's book when looking at the frame drawings teh frame is 1 1/3" wide though you are using 3 3/4" boards. So does the board taper from the outside or the inside of the frame? Or does that question make no sence?

Bottem: What is everyone's thoughts on 1/2" plywood with 1/4" boot vs. 24 ounce fibergalss vs. single 5/8" plywood bottem vs. other options??? Again which option would be the best for a beginner looking for durability and lower matinence.

Wood source: Obviously marine plywood is not easy to come by. Any one know of a good place to get wood around Denver, CO and a little north of there? Also is it ok to get frame material at a place like Home Depot, IF you can find nice CVG wood?

Im sure I will have way more questions to come, but im hoping to learn as much as I can from you all so I dont have to pay for my mistakes in the future. Thank you all, and thank you for this site!

Ben

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Peak on February 5, 2011 at 7:40am

worth noting: 

In S&G, the idea is to totally encapsulate the wood, keeping all moisture out.  One uses glue only, no screws/nails that would let moisture in and bring on the rot.  Framed boats do use metal fasteners, but they are designed to breathe, and let moisture out, thereby avoiding the rot.

So the potential problem is that by glassing and using metal fasteners, you are allowing moisture in (screw holes) and making it more difficult for it to escape (glass).

Having said that, I just picked up a very neglected framed boat that I think I'm going to reinforce with glass, then oil the shit out of the inside and hope it breathes through the inside.

my S&G build pics:  https://picasaweb.google.com/jwpeak2001peak/Boat#

If you haven't already, search "whitewater" and "Briggs" on here and you'll find more info than you want...

Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on February 5, 2011 at 3:50pm

Jeff, so you think I will run into problems in the long run glassing/epoxying and using screws? I am some what worried about durability if I do not use glass, but as I have stated I am new to this. I was planning on glassing the inside and outside and coating all exposed parts in epoxy. BUT if it would be better to just oil then its not to late for me to switch tacktics... Almost ordered epoxy and glass today, but I guess ill wait and think on it for a bit longer.

 

So my concern is that without glassing and using epoxy my boat will lack straingth , but if I do use glass and it ends up rotting out the wood then that is not good eigther. Help!!!

Permalink Reply by Scott Hepler on February 5, 2011 at 4:10pm

Ben, One option if you are going to glass and use frames is to drill pilot holes where your screws are going to go, I use a tapered drill bit with a built in counter sink. Then put a small dab of 5200 on the screw, drive it home and just clean up the squeeze out. If your going to paint the outside all the screws there will be faired with thickened epoxy and painted, so no worries. On the inside the 5200 will seal the screw in and not allow any water to get to the wood.

There are probably many ways to do this.

scott

Permalink Reply by lhedrick on February 5, 2011 at 5:01pm

One comment about water damage.   Our driftboats/dories are a bit different then a speed boat which might float in a dock slip all season.  We float, load up and trailer back home.  The boats doen really sit in water 24 hours a day for weeks and here in the west with 10 percent humidity our boat get a chance to dry out a bit.  My first all wood stitch and glue boat is almost 10 years old.  No sign of rot anywhere.  You just need to look at it once and a while.  If there is a big cut in the bottom let it dry and patch it.   If you smash a rock check it out after the trip.  For most who get on the river 20 days a season rot is just not going to be an issue.  It might be a bit more likely for a guide who works 6 days a week in fishing season.

 

As for strength, glass adds stiffness but most of the strength is in the plywood.  I would not recommend building a whitewater boat with a 3/8 bottom.  As I said before with frameless stitch and glue we don't use any screws.  I would still think even without fiberglass, any screws are a point where water can migrate into wood and start problems.  They need to be checked.

 

Framed with only oil and paint or fully glassed I wouldn't worry about rot issues if you spend just a little time checking things out and patching when needed.  Don't let the boat sit around filled with dead leaves filled with rain water.

 

The main reason I don't like frames is that I like the smooth lines in side not having all of them.

Permalink Reply by Eric Loudenslager on February 5, 2011 at 9:15am
Check the blogs and post from Brad Dimock and Kelly Nue (aka Ukulady) on this site.  Brad builds decked dories and has a number of pics of building sequence.  He uses traditional frame with some s&g thrown in.  Kelly built a decked Colorado River dory with the sequence posted at kellyneu.blogspot.com.  Lots of useful info on her blog.
Permalink Reply by Terry E Walsh on February 5, 2011 at 2:17pm
Sears Trostle and Fort Collins plastics will have everything you need to build your boat, and if they dont they will get it for you!
Permalink Reply by Marc Tittle on February 5, 2011 at 4:47pm
I row a framed boat which i wrapped the entire hull and decks in glass. The only glass under the decks consist of a roll of glass tape over the chines to create a stiffer boat. Thus far I have been really happy with the results. Also, I have been content with 9 1/2 foot oars for bigger water. Hopefully this makes all of the above information even more confusing. Marc
Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on February 5, 2011 at 6:21pm

Alright, so what I have gotten from this post is you can really do what ever you want to do, and as long as you think it through and take the time and care to maintain your craft it will most likly turn out alright. And I guess thats how it should be since we are all taking the time to build our own boats and not just buying one.

 

Thank you all again for all the advise. I look forward to continuing on with this extreamly helpfull fourm, and who knows maybe one day I will be the one answering all the questions rather then asking.

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