Clearing up finishing details

Ok, I am new to the site and have spent quite a few hours reading through tons of discussions regarding all of the stages in boat building.  I understand there are numerous ways to finish the boat however I am now more confused after reading all the discussions then I was before I started.  Wondering if anyone can help clear up some of my confusions.

I live in Southwest Colorado and plan on floating the Upper Rio Grande, Upper Gunnison, San Juan and hopefully lots of other western rivers.  I read Fletcher's book and currently building a McKenzie Double Ender with Transom.  I have found a plywood supplier and can either go with 1/4" Okoume or Meranti for the side panels and my only option for the bottom is 1/2" Okoume. I have cut all the frames out CVG Doug Fir and am ready to assemble them. I was about to order West Systems Epoxy but have struggled with figuring out how much to buy.  I am unsure as what to do for finishing the boat.

I am open to all options and have read lots of discussions on preferred methods.  I guess I am looking for a little guidance or advice on the matter.  Looking for a durable finish that will last and preferably less maintenance. Considering epoxy w/6oz glass on exterior side panels and maybe paint.  Thinking epoxy w/10z glass and graphite on bottom. Not sure what to do on interior of boat? Looking for advice here, some say epoxy with or without glass, some oil, some use varnish? Any help would be appreciated 

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Permalink Reply by Mike Baker on February 16, 2016 at 2:59pm

Hey Lucas,

Welcome to the site. Here is my .02 Go with the Meranti for the side panels. DO NOT use the Okoume for the bottom, it is not near tough enough even with glass. If Those are really your only options (1/2" fir would be great for the bottom) then I would suggest either doubling the 1/4" Meranti of bonding 1/2" Poly Honeycomb to the 1/4" Meranti then glassing that.

No need for glass on the sides of the Meranti. Use 20 oz. minimum on the bottom.

If you are going to paint the outside then you don't 'have' to use epoxy. Steele boats were all painted without epoxy and many have lasted for decades. Personally I still would use epoxy.

Oil on the inside is easy to do but requires more maintenance.  A varnished interior is a LOT of work to do right but will need less maintenance for a long time but will eventually need some and it will be a pain. This is something only you can decide. I don't feel epoxy on the inside is necessary just varnish or oil or paint.

2 gallons of resin and the appropriate hardeners should be enough to do the outside and the bottom. The 207 hardener is the way to go if you are going to clear coat. You will need an additional gallon if you are going to do either of the 2 layer bottoms as well as some thickener.

If you decide on oil use Dalys sea fin teak oil. 

I hope I have not added to your confusion and you will probably get a couple more nickels worth of advice.

Good luck,

Mike

Permalink Reply by Mike Thomas on February 16, 2016 at 4:05pm

Oh thanks Mike....I had to use Okume for my bottom, was all I could get, but I feel with the glass, epoxy and graphite it will be just fine for our rivers here. If after this year I think its a issue, I`ll pull the chine caps and add another layer. We dont have the white water and I wont be crashing any boulders. For your rivers I would do like Mike said and go heavy duty. I only used 12 oz biax glass for my bottom, but it looks like for your waters, 20-30 oz triax glass is in order.

I glassed my outsides to add a little strength and the epoxy works great with the glass, and is also a great sealer for the wood. It is also recommended under certain varnishes to get a deep awesome finish. I`m sure I wasted alot of epoxy on parts that didnt really need it. Some people glass in the inside of the sides, I just used a couple coats of epoxy and sanded good before I assembled to be ready for varnish, (the frames too) and had a nice sealed smooth wood. This saved alot of sanding after frames were in place.

If your going natural with the finish and use epoxy, the epoxy needs UV protection, that the varnish has. If your just painting I dont know that I would waste the money on epoxy, its pretty pricy. Around $150 a gal with hardener. When I grew up we didnt have epoxy, just used caulk, primer, marine paint and varnish and the wood boats lasted a good long while. It is a good all round modern product though for alot of uses. Great for bonding wood too. West has a good setup. hardeners, 205 for bonding and faster dying, 207 for a super clear finish and slower drying, they have thickening agents for bonding and fillet fillers that are really nice, and the graphite.

There are so many paint and varnish options nowadays, just have to pick one (thats the hard part) thats my .05, its gone up from .02, inflation ;)

Permalink Reply by Mike Baker on February 16, 2016 at 4:43pm

Sorry Mike,

Like you said your bottom should be fine for your water. We definitely like our heavy duty set ups out west.

Mike

Permalink Reply by tungsten on February 16, 2016 at 5:32pm

One thing to consider when choosing bottom material is hull constuction,Frames spaced fairly close together create a very stiff bottom.When 1000 lbs going 5 mph hits a 5" rock the forces or psi. created is huge.Something has to give so this is why fir is a common choice.Only thing is that getting quality fir can be a challenge so most go with Meranti and cover it with 1-2 mm of glass and epoxy.

Okoume will work just fine but it will need extra glass both inside and out.

I would suggest to shop around for epoxies, theres more than West out there that are just as good and much cheaper.

Permalink Reply by Lucas Martinez on February 16, 2016 at 7:14pm

Tungsten, thanks for reply

In other discussions I noticed talk of several other brands out there to use. West seems to be pricey but a lot of the time you get what you pay for.  Have you found it to be over priced compared to others? If so whats your product of choice?

Permalink Reply by David Witton on February 18, 2016 at 6:48am

I've been using Resin Research epoxy - I got the idea from Brad Dimock, he's got quite a bit of experience building. It's a clear, low blush product and I've been happy with the results. 

Permalink Reply by Lucas Martinez on February 16, 2016 at 7:05pm

Thanks for the info Mike T. & Mike B.,

Wondering why to skip glass on sides but not on bottom of Meranti?

As for oil on the inside, is it more maintenance because you are suppose to add so many coats of it?

If I were to just oil the entire inside of boat would checking be a issue in the future?

Permalink Reply by tungsten on February 17, 2016 at 5:48am

I think  epoxy is epoxy,100% solids. Hardener formulations differ from brand to brand and the same with viscosity.As long as its a laminating epoxy for wood/glass your good.

Raka,East and a few others are all cheaper then West and are just as good.Typically if your glassing both inside and out 5 gallons should be lots.If the boat will see lots of use and stored outside then most glass inside and out and cover with paint.

Really depend on how much $ you want to spend and effort building.As Mike says theres boats that are just painted and there still floating.

Permalink Reply by Mike Baker on February 17, 2016 at 8:28am

The glass on the bottom is for protection from rocks gravel boat ramps etc. Meranti is not prone to checking like fir is. The maintainance issue with oil is you have to keep reapplying it. I do mine twice a year. Its not hard or even terribly time consuming, apply let soak and wipe off. A couple of beers on a nice sunny day. There are worse ways to spend an couple of hours.

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