Wooden Boat People
By McKenzieDriftBoat.com
self bailing on decked dories?
I would like to see some photos of self bailing decked dories.
The Grand Canyon boats that I have seen photos of, don't seem to 'show' a through hull drain hole. I know sometimes the drainhole [help me with correct terminology] is in the bottom of the hull, in the middle. I just don't like that idea of a 2" hole in the bottom of my boat.
My thought was to connect my rowers compartment to the bow and stern footwells with plastic pipe. The water in the footwell could drain, fore or aft, eliminating a below the water-line hull hole.
I would raise the floor of the bow and stern wells 6" and then cut holes where the bulkhead meets the hull to let the incoming water drain out... ????
This would be visible- two holes on each side of the hull about 3" above the normal waterline
I am very hesitant to do this if others have not do this before me. I have also considered cutting circular holes that I could insert [and remove] scupper plugs.
All thoughts welcome and photos would be great.
Den in NH
Views: 2864
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by lhedrick on
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As you suggest I tried draining the rowers area through a hose to the front passenger compartment. It worked but drained too slowly and the hose trapped sand. I reworked it and now drain the the water out the side with a through hull fitting. The front area drains through holes in each side.
Like you I don't like the idea of putting the fitting on the bottom where it will be sliding over rocks. Some have run the drain line out the bottom up under the stem. I see no reason to be cute about drains.
If I had to do it again I would only have 1 hole on each side at the bottom of the passenger foot area and have the ability to plug them as you mentioned you might do. Next I would put another hole up high enough so I could fill the area with ballast water when I don't have someone up front.
I can post some photos at a later time.
L
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Peak on
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I think most dories have an elevated rowers footwell and a passive drain/scupper system. most go through the side compartment and out the hull...search for "through-hull" fittings at Jamestown Distributors, West Marine
only problem I see with connecting the rowers and passenger footwells is that you'll end up with a hose/pipe running right through your compartments.
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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Christensen on
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Here's a photo of the drain in my rowers footwell.
I have seen a couple boats that tried to connect the footwells via pvc pipes, etc to get everything to drain together, but none of these systems seemed to work very well. I have a bilge pump that drains my passenger footwell.
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Permalink Reply by Tommy Fuller on
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Looks effectively to be a P Trap. Do you have to un hook and drain that hose of the standing water?
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Permalink Reply by Brad Dimock on
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On the original Briggs boats, the passenger footwells were bailed manually by the passengers. The center decks all drained into the boatman's footwell, which was about ten inches above the bottom of the boat, and drained straight out the bottom through a two inch pipe. The original drain was in to back of the footwell, which led to morning crotch shots of water--highly unpleasant. The drain was subsequently relocated to the front of the footwell, behind the foot brace, which worked far better. This also solved the problem of a surging beach pumping your footwell full if sand.
I never liked the hole in the bottom, although in twenty years with Grand Canyon Dories, I do not recall there ever being a problem with it. Regardless, when I replaced my old rotted floor, I re-routed my self bailer out the side through an oval tube that I made of fiberglass. No custom through-hull fitting seems necessary. Just West it to the hull.
I also added seat-level self bailers to the passenger footwells by glueing half of a two-inch PVC pipe to the bottom of the seat and on out the sides. Then I drilled two two-inch holes in each seat. The theory was that any water above seat-level would run out, leaving only the relatively small footwell to bail by hand. It works, though filling the boat to that level is such a rare event that it may not be worthwhile.
I would caution against raising the passenger footwells the ten inches necessary to allow them to self bail, simply because you really want those passengers to be able to keep their center of gravity LOW. I have them keep most of their weight in big rapids down on their feet below water level, which makes the boat far more stable. I would also caution against the idea of using water for ballast. Water low-sides whenever it can and can easily roll your boat right over. Any ballast should be rigid and fixed in place, below river level. Beer on the flora of the hatch works very well. Lots of beer.
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I forgot to add--even with the boatman's footWell ten inches above the boat bottom, we still draw water for the first half of a commercial Grand Canyon trip. I've left Lee's Ferry with close to three inches in my footwell, making for a beastly unresponsive slug of a boat. But every day we eat and drink more, and usually by half way through the trip the footwell approaches river level. This would not likely be an issue in private boating u less you are running four passengers and way too much gear.
I'll take some pictures of the self bailers and post them.
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Here are a couple pictures. The boatman footwell self-bailer is large to get fast draining. I made it by taping two cardboard wrapping-paper tubes together, wrapping that in waxed paper, and fiberglassing it--then removing the form.
I put the holes in the passenger seats toward the center so they wouldn't splash in as much. As I say, it has worked well the few times I've utterly inundated the boat, but many trips go by without them actually functioning. They are more like an insurance policy. - Attachments:
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selfbailers.jpg, 3.3 MB
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Brad,
Good comment about using water for ballast. Not sure why that wasn't obvious to me.
About all that plumbing. I have often considered draining water through my own epoxy formed tubes and channels because I could do it. That's part of why I don't. In trying to get the boat ready last winter for a trip with lots to do the fast answer was a hose and through hull fittings. Can't imaging making your own system would save anything,
I have to say I kind of like doing stuff like that also. Just kind of expands the knowledge base and skill set. Was wondering, did you do all that just for the fun of the design and construction or was there some other benefit which I might not be seeing.
On another subject I would like to discuss hatch design. Many use the cutouts creating a flush mount. Was wondering how you seal them . Kelly had some great photos of her drain channels and I would like to know how well they work. I will start another thread for this as I think it's worth some additional discussion.
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The reason I made the big oval tube was I did not feel the 2" pipe was drain gin my main decks fast enough. So I wanted a bigger pipe, but a fatter pipe would clutter up my hatch space. So I invented an oval pipe. And the seat drains were the only thing I could think oqf. I put those in the morning I was leaving town for a 70,000 cfs Cataract Canyon trip. It only took a couple hours to stick them in and drill the seat holes.
Part of the way I design decks has to do with the fact that I live in the boat for about half the year and sleep on the decks at night. I like them to be free of sticky-up things, latches, braces, and raised lids. So I inset them. The landing a full run-around gutter, and the lids have lips that drop into the gutter. The weatherstripping on the lids is inside the lips. So for water to get in it has to run off the lid into the gutter, then go back up inside the lid lip, then net rate the weather stripping. Usually the water loses interest. It works pretty well, but on days with repeated submersion, I have yet to find a way to keep all leakage out. Hey, it's a dory.
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Permalink Reply by Kelly Neu on
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Hi there,
Just back from the lower salmon river with a drain channel report!
The boatman's well self-bails quite well, though, on a particularly loaded trip I had water sloshing around until some weight was offloaded. After a big wave hit it drains very quickly as long as the boat's trim is right-on. Sometimes people are low siding the left side which keeps the water from draining... or all that beer has shifted left.
The gutters which drain water from the deck are working well. The only hatch which is getting wet is the right side hatch. I think it may be because I drag people back on-board from that side. It gets partially submerged and stays that way for about half a minute with everyone I fish out of the river. I'm thinking about adding some additional drain tubes where the gutters are close to the right gunwale. I may also add an drain tube for the front cross hatch in anticipation of thorough dousing in the grand canyon.
Haven't really come up with a solution for draining the passenger areas. I've been looking into electric bilge pumps but it seems like they work fairly slow and are a bit on the pricey side.
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2 years ago. I ran most of the grand solo in a bucket boat. I rigged up a pump and battery and it worked just fine. 50 gallons was pumped out in a few minuets. The battery held out to just above the lake and it was also used for lights in camp and charging camera and ipod batteries.
The 500 gallon per hour pump was about 25 bucks. wholesalemarine.com has many to chose from.
My dory self bails but, others I know are using the pumps and are having good results.
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Larry,
When you rigged your pump; was the pump inside a hatch or did it stay in the footwell? If it was in the footwell, how did you fasten it into the boat?
Sounds kinda fun to have a battery on board... I'm thinking sound system and dance parties!
Do you know what kind of pumps people are using? GPH, brands, etc..?
Have any trips on deck?
-Kelly
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