has anyone put a self bailer in there ribbed boat. Am I screwing my self on wieght by decking out my ribbed boat (boat to be) construction has just resumed and this is a question I am pondering

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Comment by Robb Grubb on June 7, 2009 at 1:49pm
I too am in the planning stages of a 18 ish foot decked boat with compartments and self bailing foot wells.

Can anyone guide me to the best resources for: Scupper material and design, Hinges, Hatch latches, etc.

I would prefer not to re-invent the wheel and learn from you folks that have already done it...


Comment by Den on April 30, 2009 at 5:30pm
I'm building a framed whitewater dory [rogue river without the reverse sheer] The one thing I an DEFINATELY doing is making the fore and aft decks LEVEL. That way passenger can sit and longe on them. When the boat takes on water there will be plenty of up and down to tilt the water onto the floors and out the scuppers.

It seems useless to me to "slant" the fore and aft deck. The comfort of my passenger is much more important that the little storage space I give up.

We rowers don't seem to consider our shipmates experience. Also my friends and girlfriend like to row once in a while and them its me who is longing and napping on the deck.

Keep up the good work. Every boat that gets us on the water is a GREAT boat.

Den in New Hampshire
Comment by Sandy Pittendrigh on April 25, 2009 at 6:34am
I thought of another thought comparison here.
Randy pointed out that typical stitch and glue boats are about the same weight as
a framed boat. I'd argue stitch and glue boats tend to be a bit lighter. But not much.
( I was really surprised at the weight of AJ's big Rapid Robert a few years ago, last
time we fished togeher....perhaps it's because framed boats soak up moisture over time?)

But generally I agree with Randy: framed and stitch and glue are similar, weight wise.
So if you also accept the argument the real weight is mostly in the plywood, then
it becomes obvious. If you want to save weight, you have to find a way to replace the plywood.
That's where the action is. My next boat will be a one-off all honeycomb hull, pulled off
a quick-and-dirty mold made from ribs, cheap construction plywood and lots of mold release wax.
That's how I used to build balsa core boats.
Comment by Sandy Pittendrigh on April 25, 2009 at 6:06am
Comparing stitch and glue to framed boats weight wise?
if you take the ribs out of a framed boat, and then add fiberglass and resin,
you get most of that weight back again. Typical stitch and glue boats
are perhaps a bit lighter than framed boats. But not a whole lot.
The main stitch and glue advantage (if you believe the argument)
is strength and long term durability.

But most of the weight is in the plywood. Plywood is heavy stuff.
I used to build end grain balsa-core driftboats. Now they were light.
Balsa core is obsolete now. Honeycomb core polyethelene is only
a tad heavier and it won't soak up water, the way balsa does if exposed to moisture.

I made balsa boats where the bottom, sides, seats, lockers and gunwales were
all made from balsa blocks wrapped in glass. And my boats were the lightest thing
out there. Lightest big boats ever made. If I was going to build a decked white water
boat, that's how I'd do it (with honeycomb rather than balsa, however).

I've always been motivated by the ability to "do it myself" rather than
"do it only with wood."
Comment by lhedrick on March 31, 2009 at 6:28pm

The front area where the holes are drains immediately. The water goes out so fast I think only 1 hole on each side would have done it.

The problem with the setup is the hose which drains the rowers foot well. The out flow of the hose is only 1 inch below the hose at the foot well. The hose also needs to be kept level or it will collect sand cutting the flow even more. Keeping the hose level and adding a second hose of larger diameter with another through hull fitting got the flow high enough to drain it out in a reasonable amount of time. Before the modifications it took several minutes to empty.

Comment by chris bissonnette on March 31, 2009 at 2:38pm
when I spoke to roger he suggested ribs 1 and 9 be built when the boat was formed to get a true fit on the lines. So now I figure a foam bulk head and deck in the bow will rplace the front rib. Strength should be there with less weight. My other idea was to deck the whole stern to the rowers seat. Do I need that last rib in side the bulkhead? Thanks for the suggestion on white inside, makes sense. I used Oak for the transom so it should be stout enough. Thoughts.......
Comment by Randy Dersham on March 31, 2009 at 1:50pm
Chris, Larry's suggestion of a foam or even plasticore bulkhead is a good one to keep weight down. You have frames so you can use 1/4 ply attached to the frames and sealed. Once taped on the inside with fiberglass/epoxy joints it will be still and lightweight.
Comment by chris bissonnette on March 30, 2009 at 10:00pm
didnt think that far ahead and went with a prichet/briggs high bred and frames it is. working on the deck lay out and have created a high bred design of those too. I noticed the holes in the carnege in the front passanger area. wondered if that was working. coming from raft back ground it seems like a self bailing rubber boat. the sides will be finished this week? so I am sure to have more to keep you guys on your toes thanks for the input
Comment by lhedrick on March 30, 2009 at 6:50pm
A friend of mine has a 16 foot framed boat which is decked and self bailing. My boat is a decked stitch and glue boat. They are both heavy.

I built my boat as an open fishing boat then I covered it over. It's amazing how much extra epoxy/fiberglass and plywood you use up. A lot of weight gets added. There are things you can do to keep weight down. 3 of the bulkheads on my boat are fiberglass covered foam. If you are not building a boat specifically for white water think it over carefully. After you add the decks they become heavy, don't fish all that well any longer and there is only one place to cast which is up front.

If you use through hull fittings and a hose get large diameters. Since the level of the outflows can be close to that of the interior areas water can drain out slowly. I added a second hose since the water drains out of the rowers foot well very slowly. Another item, don't paint under the decks. Get white pigment to add to the epoxy. That keep it light under the deck so visibility is better and if you need to patch anything you won't need to sand off the paint for the epoxy patch.

I don't think the frames will be an issue if you decide to deck the boat over. I will say that if I were building a decked boat from scratch frames would seem to server no real purpose since bulkheads will do the same thing.

Comment by Randy Dersham on March 30, 2009 at 5:22pm
There should be very little difference in the weight of a framed wood boat vs. a stitch and glue of the same size. The cedar frames are very light weight and the epoxy fiberglass combo is heavy. Epoxy + 3/8 plywood of the S&G vs 1/4in. side panel and cedar frame of the framed boat make the weight almost the same.

To build a self bailer the floor boards of your cockpit for the rower and or front seat need to be sealed and above the water line. The scuppers drain water from the cockpit back to the river. It is important for you to keep water from flowing below the scupper level. There is no doubt that a decked boat will be heaver and a bit less versatile but it will also pop up like a cork in the HUGE water that can cover you up.

You are right on track. Go for it.

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