My friend Dave has a 16 foot decked Tatman. The seat is the rear hatch lid. I can hardly row that boat sitting up that high. When I try to lift the oars out of the water my knees get in the way. I have big trouble getting the oars our of the water. Dave is a big guy also and he rows it without any difficulty at all. His boat has been down the Grand twice and should be going with us next March. Jeremy another builder has a boat like mine but with the same rowing setup as Dave and I have the same issue in his boat.
When I reworked my boat I built a rope seat which is a few inches lower and slides forward and back on rails glued to the inside of the box.
My new boat is looking real nice. Since I don't have a job any longer I hope to sell it as son as possible and keep building. Hope to make it into a retirement business. Beats sitting at a desk .
Every time I get back from a run down the Grand it seems to take the rest of the summer to recover from the fact that it's over. Had a great time.
We had a person drop out due to an injury so my dory stayed home and I took a friends raft so I could haul more stuff. My friend took my dory on a Deso trip while I was on the Colorado. The had over 20000 CFS and big fun at Joe Hutch rapid.
I have another Grand trip next March so I hope to take it on that trip.
I am now back to work trying to get my new 16 foot fishing drift boat done. I also never got my old boat painted when I put on the new deck. I already have a bit of UV damage so, I am trying to get it repaired and painted this week. If I can get the paint done by next Sunday I might be able to make it over to the Green. Another dory builder and I were hoping to get over there in the next week or so. I will get back to you later in the week after I see how far I get with the paint project.
Just signed up on the WBP site, I am in planning stages of a Briggs style boat. I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction regarding accessories and hardware for:
Scuppers, plumbing for self-bailing design, hatch latches, hatch sealing designs that actually work and floor heights above water lines and any other helpful information that I would otherwise make mistakes when building...
I built from some plans of Roger Fletcher's. its a double ended version of the original Briggs boat. there is a flat section in the middle, as there should be, but theres not as much rocker, especially in the bow, as I'd like. I think when I took the hull off the forms and set it on the floor, I could/should have done a better job of supporting the very front and back instead of letting the entire boat rest on that flat spot in the middle...too bad so sad, can't wait to go float. Colorado is rising, maybe Ruby/Horsethief tomorrow?
Yes, I have been down the left side at 850 at least 20 times. You just need to spot the rock I am taking about and slide to the right of it. The you are through and can start working right for the rest of the run. With my decked boat and camping gear it sits lower in the water now and I still get through at 850 on the left just fine.
Years ago on my first time I high sided on the rock and did a spin. I also got a black eye 200 yards below that when I was trying to ferry left and caught an oar when I wasn't paying attention and got punched. I had not excuse for that mistake.
I think we have had about 6 -7 feet of snow here in the last 10 day. Had a warm spell for about 3 weeks and it started looking like winter was going away early and not a big snow year up to that point. The last snows have brought things back up closer to normal.
As for the Green. My boat was originally built specifically for fly fishing the Green below the dam before I decked it over. I run through Red Creek many times each season. There is a right and left run as boulders take up the center of the river. Flows of 1100 plus make the left run fairly straight forward. A drift boat is one thing but a big heavy 17 foot Briggs boat would be hard to get through Red Creek at 850.
The rapid is close to ½ mile long but, only the entry and first 100 yards can be the real challenge.
The right side run has more water but also comes with the most risk. If you screw up and sink the boat it will be no easy task to get to it. I have made the right run a few times. As an experienced boater you will have the skill to run the right side. The move is a bit tricky to describe. There is a fast wave train which runs along a cliff. The flow pushes a bit left toward a large boulder on the left. Its about 75 yards or so down. The guides have their passengers walk around. They back haul trying to stay left. As they approach the large boulder they continue to pull left and head straight for it. The water pillows up allowing them to make a move and slide through a slot back to river left to pick up their passengers. I would not recommend the right side run until you watch one of the guides make the move. I am sure you can do it but, it will help to see the line. Guides start hitting Red Creek around 12:00.
The left run is a straight shot but, it is a narrow run and at places you will need to lift your oars up over the rocks. The low morning flow of 850 is the problem. When you scout the run walk down river and at the end of the difficult section there is a rock about 5 feet a round just under the water. It makes a poor over, it's perhaps 100 yards down and it's at the point were things start to open up. Stay in the center of the flow and pull when you can get your oars in the water. Oars over 9 foot six in this section start to get in the way. This is the rock which get everyone. Things open up just after this rock so I am sure you will have no trouble spotting it. At 1100 plus you can run over it but, at 850 it will spin you. The key is to control your speed with as many pulls as you can get. A strong rower can pull hard as they approach this poor over and slid right of it. If you get pushed left of it you will get through safely but wind up on shore and the flow pushes left. After that spot it's a long run of fast water. Work back river right for the rest of the run. The river starts to flatten out below Red Creek. I have helped push rafts of that rock so the left run keeps people close to shore access and help.
Power generation will often lift the flow up to 1100 or 1200 and the water gets to Red Creek around 1:00.
Shuttles down to Indian Crossing from the Dam or Little hole are now 100 bucks and the first come first server camping is 12.00 a night. The sign up board is down at little hole.
All the nice camps are above Red Creek. Above the rapid is about 1 mile of flat water which can be some good fishing around dark and you can row back up river easily. My favorite camp is river right just above the rapid. It's called Pugmire Pocket. I always try to get that camp and stay 2 nights. Fish the flat water after dinner. The next day row down to Red Creek and spend the day wading Red Creek. It has a lots of big strong browns and no one fishes it. The guides just blow through.
I have a Deso trip in the middle of April and the Grand in May. After that when I go over to the Green to fish I will drop you a line. There is camping at the Indian Crossing take out. We often drop the boat at the dam the night before. Then go down to IC for the night. I have a tandem bar and can tow 2 boats back up to the dam after the float.
I can't thank you enough for the offer. I am already committed to a May 8 launch this season.
I will also be helping another non-boater put together a trip in March 2010. I have had some special luck in the last 4 years. This year I am taking my 14 footer. A bit small but I'm going to give it a run. For 2010 I think I am going to build a new 16 footer all out of honeycomb and kevlar.
I currently have a new 16 foot fly fishing platform under construction. Beats working.
------
I keep trying but can't seem to land a permit myself. Friends and I have been talking about and all dory trip one day. I'v got your name on the list along with Jeff Peak and the rest of us here in Salt Lake.
If you need another dory you could contact Dave Inskeep of Salt Lake.
skeepd@msn.com
He has a 16 foot framed Tatman design he built which has thousands of mile on it. I have been down the Grand with him the last 2 years. Great person and a solid and safe boater
Jim, I rowed a 18 foot raft through the grand canyon in 1991. It was incredible, but getting a permit is so tough. Also, most of the folks on the blog are fishermen on class 3 or smaller rapids. Its great to get input about big whitewater. My first trip will probably be through cataract canyon. I'd love to go the full lenght of the middle fork of the salmon and main salmon together. Also Hells Canyon, I once just showed up at the put in there and got invited on a trip with my kayak, but I didn't have the time.
I'd love to talk by phone. I'll call you on my nickel if you give me a number.
Also, I' looking for a person to 'loan' my dory to out west for storage exchange, I don''t intend to drive it back and forth form NH.
Jim,
Thanks for the note. We ran the MF at all levels from Boundary Creek. When the water got around 2ft. or so we would run the boats empty to Indian Creek and fly the people into there. Best levels are from 41/2 to a little under 3 feet. We ran loaded from Boundary Creek at about 2.5 feet but you were hitting constantly til you got to Pistol Creek. The Grand Canyon Dories used to run there once in a while at higher levels. With your Briggs I would imagine you could handle close to 5 feet or a little over. I am not really familiar with the design.
The last few years I was over there were low water years and it was a bugger.
I'll most likely do the April, June and Sept. Trips for GCE. We're also doing a private, end of Feb. I've lots of boat work between now and then, tho'.
Andy
Hi Jim, Thanks for the note and Pics. Yeah, it would be nice to cross paths/eddy out one of these years. Nice, looking lines on your craft-there, Matey! Cheers, Andy
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My friend Dave has a 16 foot decked Tatman. The seat is the rear hatch lid. I can hardly row that boat sitting up that high. When I try to lift the oars out of the water my knees get in the way. I have big trouble getting the oars our of the water. Dave is a big guy also and he rows it without any difficulty at all. His boat has been down the Grand twice and should be going with us next March. Jeremy another builder has a boat like mine but with the same rowing setup as Dave and I have the same issue in his boat.
When I reworked my boat I built a rope seat which is a few inches lower and slides forward and back on rails glued to the inside of the box.
My new boat is looking real nice. Since I don't have a job any longer I hope to sell it as son as possible and keep building. Hope to make it into a retirement business. Beats sitting at a desk .
Every time I get back from a run down the Grand it seems to take the rest of the summer to recover from the fact that it's over. Had a great time.
We had a person drop out due to an injury so my dory stayed home and I took a friends raft so I could haul more stuff. My friend took my dory on a Deso trip while I was on the Colorado. The had over 20000 CFS and big fun at Joe Hutch rapid.
I have another Grand trip next March so I hope to take it on that trip.
I am now back to work trying to get my new 16 foot fishing drift boat done. I also never got my old boat painted when I put on the new deck. I already have a bit of UV damage so, I am trying to get it repaired and painted this week. If I can get the paint done by next Sunday I might be able to make it over to the Green. Another dory builder and I were hoping to get over there in the next week or so. I will get back to you later in the week after I see how far I get with the paint project.
Larry
Beautiful boats you have!
Just signed up on the WBP site, I am in planning stages of a Briggs style boat. I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction regarding accessories and hardware for:
Scuppers, plumbing for self-bailing design, hatch latches, hatch sealing designs that actually work and floor heights above water lines and any other helpful information that I would otherwise make mistakes when building...
Regards,
Robb
don't tease me like that...
http://picasaweb.google.com/jwpeak2001peak/Boat#5329547972048551986
what do you think about the "flatness"?
Years ago on my first time I high sided on the rock and did a spin. I also got a black eye 200 yards below that when I was trying to ferry left and caught an oar when I wasn't paying attention and got punched. I had not excuse for that mistake.
Like they say, it ain't over till it's over.
I think we have had about 6 -7 feet of snow here in the last 10 day. Had a warm spell for about 3 weeks and it started looking like winter was going away early and not a big snow year up to that point. The last snows have brought things back up closer to normal.
As for the Green. My boat was originally built specifically for fly fishing the Green below the dam before I decked it over. I run through Red Creek many times each season. There is a right and left run as boulders take up the center of the river. Flows of 1100 plus make the left run fairly straight forward. A drift boat is one thing but a big heavy 17 foot Briggs boat would be hard to get through Red Creek at 850.
The rapid is close to ½ mile long but, only the entry and first 100 yards can be the real challenge.
The right side run has more water but also comes with the most risk. If you screw up and sink the boat it will be no easy task to get to it. I have made the right run a few times. As an experienced boater you will have the skill to run the right side. The move is a bit tricky to describe. There is a fast wave train which runs along a cliff. The flow pushes a bit left toward a large boulder on the left. Its about 75 yards or so down. The guides have their passengers walk around. They back haul trying to stay left. As they approach the large boulder they continue to pull left and head straight for it. The water pillows up allowing them to make a move and slide through a slot back to river left to pick up their passengers. I would not recommend the right side run until you watch one of the guides make the move. I am sure you can do it but, it will help to see the line. Guides start hitting Red Creek around 12:00.
The left run is a straight shot but, it is a narrow run and at places you will need to lift your oars up over the rocks. The low morning flow of 850 is the problem. When you scout the run walk down river and at the end of the difficult section there is a rock about 5 feet a round just under the water. It makes a poor over, it's perhaps 100 yards down and it's at the point were things start to open up. Stay in the center of the flow and pull when you can get your oars in the water. Oars over 9 foot six in this section start to get in the way. This is the rock which get everyone. Things open up just after this rock so I am sure you will have no trouble spotting it. At 1100 plus you can run over it but, at 850 it will spin you. The key is to control your speed with as many pulls as you can get. A strong rower can pull hard as they approach this poor over and slid right of it. If you get pushed left of it you will get through safely but wind up on shore and the flow pushes left. After that spot it's a long run of fast water. Work back river right for the rest of the run. The river starts to flatten out below Red Creek. I have helped push rafts of that rock so the left run keeps people close to shore access and help.
Power generation will often lift the flow up to 1100 or 1200 and the water gets to Red Creek around 1:00.
Shuttles down to Indian Crossing from the Dam or Little hole are now 100 bucks and the first come first server camping is 12.00 a night. The sign up board is down at little hole.
All the nice camps are above Red Creek. Above the rapid is about 1 mile of flat water which can be some good fishing around dark and you can row back up river easily. My favorite camp is river right just above the rapid. It's called Pugmire Pocket. I always try to get that camp and stay 2 nights. Fish the flat water after dinner. The next day row down to Red Creek and spend the day wading Red Creek. It has a lots of big strong browns and no one fishes it. The guides just blow through.
I have a Deso trip in the middle of April and the Grand in May. After that when I go over to the Green to fish I will drop you a line. There is camping at the Indian Crossing take out. We often drop the boat at the dam the night before. Then go down to IC for the night. I have a tandem bar and can tow 2 boats back up to the dam after the float.
I can't thank you enough for the offer. I am already committed to a May 8 launch this season.
I will also be helping another non-boater put together a trip in March 2010. I have had some special luck in the last 4 years. This year I am taking my 14 footer. A bit small but I'm going to give it a run. For 2010 I think I am going to build a new 16 footer all out of honeycomb and kevlar.
I currently have a new 16 foot fly fishing platform under construction. Beats working.
------
I keep trying but can't seem to land a permit myself. Friends and I have been talking about and all dory trip one day. I'v got your name on the list along with Jeff Peak and the rest of us here in Salt Lake.
If you need another dory you could contact Dave Inskeep of Salt Lake.
skeepd@msn.com
He has a 16 foot framed Tatman design he built which has thousands of mile on it. I have been down the Grand with him the last 2 years. Great person and a solid and safe boater
Thanks again.
Larry
I'd love to talk by phone. I'll call you on my nickel if you give me a number.
Also, I' looking for a person to 'loan' my dory to out west for storage exchange, I don''t intend to drive it back and forth form NH.
Den
Thanks for the note. We ran the MF at all levels from Boundary Creek. When the water got around 2ft. or so we would run the boats empty to Indian Creek and fly the people into there. Best levels are from 41/2 to a little under 3 feet. We ran loaded from Boundary Creek at about 2.5 feet but you were hitting constantly til you got to Pistol Creek. The Grand Canyon Dories used to run there once in a while at higher levels. With your Briggs I would imagine you could handle close to 5 feet or a little over. I am not really familiar with the design.
The last few years I was over there were low water years and it was a bugger.
Herb
Andy
It will be fun to see photos of the big water and the canyons. I'm looking forward to it.
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