Wooden Boat People
By McKenzieDriftBoat.com
Alternatives to white oak for handrails, chines, etc??
Are there some good alternatives to white oak for the chines, rails, etc.? I am unable to locate long lengths (16'+) within 75 miles of my locale. 10'-14' lengths are available, but that would require scarfing and I am not sure if they would be strong enough for this application. Red oak is somewhat available, but its strength is not as good. Any thoughts?? If I need to order, who would be recommended? Thanks
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on
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A properly cut 12:1 scarf is plenty strong enough for the long stock you describe. We do it all the time. Proper epoxy work is important. Here's how. Warm the surfaces to be joined with a heat gun or hair drier. Brush on a coat of epoxy. The warm surfaces will thin the first coat a bit and will draw it into the wood as it cools. Add another coat in about a half hour to fill the areas that have been absorbed. Now mix some thickener into the final coat, apply and clamp. Be sure to wrap the area in visqueen to keep from glueing it to the work surface and clamps. Once cured you have a bomb proof joint. Position the middle of this joint at a frame so it is further strengthened by the through bolt. Sapelie mahagany is another wood that works well for long stock but finding any in 16'+ lengths may be difficult. The Sapelie takes oil much better than oak. Fir or spruce have also been used for these parts. Stay away from red oak. It is prone to rot.
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Permalink Reply by Lawrence E. Long on
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AJ is on the mark!
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Permalink Reply by Bryan McDade on
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Hi, I had this problem too, I went down to my local lumber store and bought Ipe(iron wood decking). It comes in the sizes needed, has great rot,strength, and bending qualities, and looks beautiful. I had a scrap piece I left half buried in mud for over a year and still no signs of rot whatsoever. The price is good too. It is heavy though. GL
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Permalink Reply by Brad Dimock on
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I'm pretty partial to ash. It's not expensive, is quite strong, and bends magnificently. It also holds a scarf very well--I've used 8:1 on Briggs boats and have not had a scarf fail yet. It doesn't mind water, either--thats what Smoker oars are made of. But I don't think I'd want that joint on the steep bend in the front quarter of the boat. The inner scarf gets buried in the oarlock arrangement, and I try to get the outer one somewhere along the flat side stretch.
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Permalink Reply by Kelly on
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I found white oak in boise at many hard wood stores. None in 16ft lengths but I got it in 9ft 4/4x8.
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Permalink Reply by Dave Z on
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White Oak, fir, Ash.
I've used them all. and when continuous wood was not available, I have scarfed as AJ directs with excellent results.
Exotics like mahogany are a littler harder to get depending on where you are. I too have heard alot about using Ipe for good reason. ( I believe it is pronounced EE-pay)
Stay away from red oak, as advised.
Find a mill, and call them and tell them you want S4S in whatever length you need, the longer the better. Forget the lumber yard, they are a distributor or reseller. You need to go to the source. I did this and ended up with 22' foot white oak sections. I bought as many as they could get and they are stashed in the rafters. (I know there are many more boats in my future).
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Can you recommend the mill your got the white oak from? I'd love to have a good source handy. If not, I'll go a-hunting.
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Permalink Reply by Shawn Jensen on
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Thanks to all for the info. I am going to scarf as instructed. Will let you know how it all works out. There are not any hardwood mills in my area. The only hardwoods that grow around here are the ones you plant in your yard. I know the owners of a cabinet shop here in town and they can bring in anything I need from their supplier. Great, more practice with scarfing before the next boat.
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Permalink Reply by gs zoll on
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I also had a no luck finding 17' white oak, and the other materials I had chosen for the boat where over priced or
not stocked at any of the local suppliers here in Southern Oregon. Go figure, the Rogue River Valley where there used to be timber and plywood mills by the dozens. Thanks to Randy Dersham for telling me about Almquist Lumber. They had everything I wanted except the white oak, I had read about Ipe (it has the same fire rating as concrete) but it was said to not have good bending characteristics. In the same report I found Jatoba aka Brazilian cherry which has good bending characteristics and is a little lighter. Still heavier than the oak but a little stronger. I hope that I can reduce the dimension of the rails to lighten them up a little but will have to test the strength first. Another good choice is purple heart, Almquist said there are a lot of builders using it.
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Brad,
I am in PA, the source I use is called Seneca Hardwoods. Located in Cranberry, PA, near the Clarion College. It is about an hour from my house.
http://senecahardwoodlumber.com/contactus.htm
Seneca Hardwood Lumber Co., Inc.
212 Seneca Hardwood Rd
Cranberry, PA 16319
Phone: (814) 498-2241
Fax: (814) 498-2613
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GS,
For what its worth, I slimmed the rails on my current setup to 5/8" on the inner rail and 1/2" on the outer rail and bending was a piece of cake, and looks slimmer, just as tough.
I used 5/8" for the chines and outer chine battens.
The mill I get my wood from will plane it to any finish and dimension for pennies. So I had them do s4s (planed smooth all 4 sides) to 5/8 by 8/4. I finished them to shape/bevel, etc on my own saw.
They are a moulding maker, and next time I will actually have them pre bevel my chines.
I wish I could find fir or western larch in the lengths and quality to build a fir double ender with fir inner and outer rails, white oak chines and battens.
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