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Permalink Reply by chris towles on March 23, 2011 at 7:45am

ben, i'm going to guess most folks are gonna tell you at least epoxy before paint. glass doesn't hurt either. you can just paint too, but as my dad likes to say do it right the first time. use an oil based house paint. i've had good luck with sherwin williams all surface oil enamel, get a satin finish if at all possible to keep the glare down. as for paint vs oil, i was liking your idea on the oiled interior. with careful masking and 5200, you can make an oiled interior look really nice. i'll try and post some pics of my cabinet sealing later today so you can see how good a caulk line can look when you get it razor sharp. with careful caulking, oil may indeed be a nice cure for the inside of your boat. that said, most briggs boats i have seen all have painted interiors, which is a very durable surface and paint hides all boo boos. oil is classic though..

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Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 23, 2011 at 7:52am

I thought it was not the best idea to epoxy everything if you are using screws because it does not allow the wood to breath... I will be glassing and epoxying the floors, but I was thinking that would be it to allow the boat to dry.

 

I just think for my first boat its going to be difficult to keep the 5200 from getting everywhere and messing up the interior oil, But I guess Ill have to see how its going. Im still leaving my options open.

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Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on March 23, 2011 at 9:12am

There are a couple of things to think about Ben.

1. plywood will not breath and dry out. That is only true of the outside layers which are very thin. It is usually better to seal plywood.  When people oil plywood it is for the ease of refinish rather than for plywood to dry. In plywood there are several layers of glue that are waterproof and will not allow water from the flat surface to penetrate beyond the glue layer.  End grain is the boogyman for plywood.  It will allow water to soak into the center layers of the wood and cause rot.  Seal that end grain well. That is the purpose for most of the battens, to hold that seal and protect the end grain.

 

2. The lumber in the boat will dry if oiled so you are right on track there if oil is your finish of choice.  

 

3. It is not a good idea to oil the outside of the boat.  That used to be done a lot but was stopped here on the McKenzie sometime before the 70s as the early plywood boats began to rot out.  The oil on the outside of the boat does not protect water from following the screws or nails into the plywood, then traveling via the interior layers and eventually causing rot.  A boat that is encapsulated on the outside will last a lot longer.  So the norm quickly became a boat painted on the outside and oiled on the inside. You can still use epoxy and varnish the exterior for that wood look but be sure to seal all of those screw holes. 

 

Many on this forum love oiled interiors.

 

4. Ray Heater shared a thread a while ago about selling his personal boat that was six years old.  He encapsulated everything and painted it a nice dark green.  He said it still looked like new the day he sold it.  CLICK HERE TO GO TO A LINK on Ray's site for a boat with a clear interior.        

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 23, 2011 at 2:43pm

So after I install all the decking and screw everything in place then I should coat the whole interior with epoxy? Or should I only epoxy the end grain? If Im going to paint over it I could put down two layers of epoxy then paint over... does that sound right. This is something that I would rather not mess up (I guess like everything else).

 

From the way rays boat looks did he encapsulate everything and only paint the outside, leaving the inside how it was?

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Permalink Reply by chris towles on March 23, 2011 at 3:26pm

there are a few differant finish options available to you at this point. i assume you got some 5200 running up  or down rather your side panels during the chine log install? that could probably still be remedied easily for whichever finish you decide.

 

finish one: oil interior, you know the game here, 5200 to seal everything, decking cabinets etc. mask alot to get nice tight exterior lines, and give her hell with the oil. penofin marine oil, teak oil, homemade boat soup all seem to work well. keep your 5200 neat with masking and this will be a nice finish. still trying to find my memory card to snap pics of my cabinet seal job. but it looks really nice with a tight bead of 5200 or sika 291.

 

finish two: varnish. if you want the look like on some of those heater boats with the clear finish you need to encapsulate the wood with epoxy first, then apply a spar varnish over the top. epoxy is not uv stable and will check and crack very quicky exposed to the elements (like less than a season). the spar varnish protects the epoxy from the uv degredation, but being a clear coat, the varnish is prone to uv damage in its own right and over a few years with crack and check. to refinish means lots of stripping and revarnishing. varnish is alot of upkeep but is probably the nicest looking finish if done right...your boat will gleam in the light and people will notice. you'll probably swear at it every 2-3 years or so when you have to refinish it.

 

finish three: paint. this is obviously the easiest one to do. least amount of upkeep, durable surface, uv protection, encapsulation, etc. plenty of pros. doesn't look as trick as a wood interior. if you want to paint there are a few options, none being wrong, some being better than others. you could just paint with no prep. you could oil, and then paint (with oil based of course). you could lay down a coating of epoxy sand it smooth and paint over that with a few coats. you could also lay 4 or 6 oz glass down with epoxy. then fair it smooth and hit it with a few coats of primer, give it a wet sand to smooth it out...level any bad finish areas with fairing, then paint that..thats probably the best way but the most work..you can get a really nice finish that way that will be extremely durable too. primer filler as a binding agent between epoxy and paint is not a bad idea either, you will be happy with the finish results after the extra work

 

finish four: mix and match. with good masking and being careful to keep separate finish areas separate, you can paint some stuff and oil some stuff. paint surfaces that see foot traffic, oil all the vertical surfaces. you could also go the same way with varnish and paint too. my boat has the cabinet tops, running boards, and floor painted (well half of them right now), everything else oiled. looks nice.

 

others here have had good luck using truck bed liner for interior floors. alot of stich and glue guys will line-x their outside hulls, but thats not reccomended for framed building because you want access to the chine cap. for a bomber inter floor paint though, it could be a good choice. its also very non skid. many here have used durabak liner with good success.

 

thats it for now, i'll try and get you pics of those cabinets seals. the prep is really everything with the 5200. mask everything you don't want it on. clean up the bead with your finger first removing excess caulk, then whack the joint with a rag with solvents (paint thinner) to really  get the joint looking nice. then pull the tape before the glue cures. looks really nice every time. its all in the prep!

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Permalink Reply by chris towles on March 23, 2011 at 4:35pm

heres some pics of those caulk lines:

 

theres more pictures on my flickr site too. http://www.flickr.com/photos/55830476@N04/sets/72157626211250039/ i'll also say that while you want to use tons of tape to get nice tight lines on exterior joints, gluing on the inside of your cabinets is a totally differant story. here, where asthetics don't matter as much, you can just run a nice fat bead and smooth it out with your finger. you'll end up with a 1/4" wide fat bead  which should seal everything up nice. you can tape here too, just give yourself a bit more distance from the joint. your inside bead should be fat to really seal things up.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on March 24, 2011 at 3:12pm

I like the idea of the simplicity of oiling, Im just not sure if I will be able to make it look really well. Could I start out oiling and if it really does not look good then I could paint it later on top of the oil?

 

Im also still really confused, do I still need to epoxy the ends of the ply wood?

 

 

Chris, how far from the edge did you put your tape?

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Permalink Reply by chris towles on March 24, 2011 at 3:39pm

ben,

    a few answers. if you mask well, and clean with a rag and are careful it is easy to get those nice tight lines on exterior joint. mask 1/8 away from either side of the joint with painters tape. run the 5200 or sika 291 out of the gun into the corner like caulk. use your finger to run over the joint, forcing the goop into the joint, and cleaning up any excess. then take a rag with paint thinner and run it over the joint. this will clean all the excess and leave you with a tight bead. pull the tape before the glue cures. use wide tape (blue or white 3m painters tape) and be carfeul with the 5200. if you are really worried too..mask around any large area with newspaper and tape. its really all in the prep.

 

as for the oil, you can definatly paint over oiled plywood using oil based paint. might not be the worst idea either because the oil offers the wood some protection beneath the paint. you'll prob want to give the surafce a good sanding, and use an oil based primer, and you shoulden'ty have too many problmes. you could also do as i said above with mix and match. paint your cabinet tops and leave all the vertical surfaces oiled. again..mucho taping and prep is the key to nice tight lines and separate finish areas. frog tape works real well for painting.

 

as for sealing end grain, its generally a good idea. for exterior plywood (ie your boat hull),  the chine joint will get sealed with 5200, thats probably fine, cause that stuff is amasing at bonding and waterproofing. epoxying just the edge of the ply isn't the worst idea either, but probably not necessary. other with more experience than i may disagree. just mix up a small cup and paint the edges. the entire hull is going to get glassed and encapsulated so its sealed from the outside. as for the top ply on the sides, i built my gunnels with a 1/4 rabbet lip on the outwhale that covered over the end grain of the plywood. once i finished gunnel construction it was well covered. if you already cut you gunnel stock, you could always make a 1/4 spacer to cover the top end grain. for interior cabinets and plywood, i built a lot of lip moldings to cover end grain that was showing. most other stuff i just sealed joints with sika 291, and i don't believe i sealed plywood end grain but must cabinets were glued in with epoxy. we'll see how they hold up over time.

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Permalink Reply by lhedrick on March 23, 2011 at 5:49pm

Ben,

Since you are building a decked boat for whitewater runs I would assume you know about the possibilities of putting a hole in your boat. It happens all the time.

If you paint under the decks you will need to get the paint off to make repairs with epoxy. If you have epoxy on the inside surfaces an option is to mix pigments into the finish coat of epoxy. A white color will help to make things brighter under the deck. To make a repair all you do is sand and re coat.

I am only talking about the areas under the decks where they will not get UV exposure. For the top side finish I would use paint.

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