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Permalink Reply by chris towles on April 8, 2011 at 12:44am

you should be able to sand and fair any rough spots smooth where the two pieces meet. you can also cover that joint/seam with visqueen or saran wrap, then use a trowel to move the air bubbles out. it will remove easily once cured and will act as a peel ply to level the epoxy on the joint. did you roll the sides with epoxy first and "tack the cloth" up on the sides dry? you should be able to smooth it out while its half dry. then use a roller to move the epoxy for the wet out coat. i just used a trowel to smooth out the fabric..just like laying wallpaper or large stickers. just get one wet out coat and let it kick. you can flow coat with the fairing after, but try and do it all in the same 24 hr window so that its chemically bonded.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on April 8, 2011 at 5:31am

Ya I thought it looked good when I tacked it up on the dry sides, then wet the wood under and it started to fold on me. We'll see how the other side goes, but this morning the glass didnt look too bad.

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Permalink Reply by Jordan Davis on April 8, 2011 at 9:37am

Ben, I think you might be misunderstanding what we mean when we say "tack".  This is not literally tacking the fiberglass to the wood.  You need to first apply resin the the bare plywood, let it get "tacky" and then lay you glass over the tacky resin.  This is just like using Elmer's to apply construction paper to cardboard...(is that a clear example?)  Once the fiberglass is held by the tacky resin on the ply you then apply a "flow coat" over the top of the cloth wetting it out (soaking it to transparency).  I think this will help you a lot!  About the only way to successfully apply fiberglass cloth to dry ply is to do it prior to mounting the panels.  I did this to the inside of my panels before applying them ( I still wet out the ply prior to rolling on my glass).  I am overkilling this boat with strength upgrades as it is a huge boat!!).  I hope this helps you out.

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Permalink Reply by Jordan Davis on April 8, 2011 at 9:41am

By the way, you are doing an awesome job on a boat that is difficult to build in the first place.  The only reason I can advise you on the process, is because I have made just about every mistake you could.  I don't want to come off as brash or critical, so I wanted to let you know you are doing great.  Boat building is a such an awesome way to learn about, not only craftsmanship, but about ourselves and our capabilities.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on April 8, 2011 at 9:52am

I guess what i ment by tack was that I dry fitted the cloth before epoxying the sides to make sure it fit. I am applying epoxy under then laying the cloth down just as you were saying.

 

Did the other side this morning in 3 pieces overlapping by like three inches or more. Waiting to start on the flow coats with filler for easier sanding.

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Permalink Reply by chris towles on April 8, 2011 at 12:30pm

ben,

   a little sanding of the glass on high spots before new coats can level some pretty bad inconsistencies. the fairing, and primer filler later on with further hide things. sanding is really what will level stuff. my old beat fir panels looked like crap when i first got them. heavy checking, pieces missing. i had to pull old rub rails, screw holes, and top ply damage. the glass and fairing covered it all and it looks great now. the visqueen or saran as a peel ply can also hide some bad stuff if you use faired epoxy under it...thats if you need to cover a seam or overlap that didn't come out that great. you can see why it may be smart to preglass side panels while they are flat now. the screw holes patch quick and easy with fairing/silica and then getting a mirror finish probably is quick and efficiant.

 

again...sanding, fairing, more sanding, mabye even more fairing touchup, primer filler, more sanding, wet sanding, more primer, more wet sanding, then paint. by the time you get there most hi spots will be gone. and it doesn't take as long as it sounds. the panels are small. you can sand a whole side with an oribital and then leveling by hand in about 1/2 hr or less. once you get to wet sanding primer for paint prep, things go quick because you really are polishing stuff by hand and wet sanding goes fast. you see where you need to concentrate your efforts once you get that far too. then just keep priming and wet sanding til you have a nice neat smooth surface to paint on. then give her hell with the oil enamel. use automtove primer or the oil primer sister product for the paint you are using. auto primer dries way fast. also, you may want to mask your top and bottom 1" so that you have nice epoxy surfaces without paint or primer to epoxy your outside gunnel and bed the chine batten. we need more pics dude =)

chris

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Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on April 8, 2011 at 2:23pm

So sanding while the primer is still wet wont just gunk up the sand paper?

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Permalink Reply by chris towles on April 8, 2011 at 5:32pm

you want to dry sand the faired sides. start at 100, move up from there 150 to 200 max. start with the orbital to level any high spots, then get as level as possible on the rest of the panel. come back and hand sand with long horizontal strokes. again try and level any high spots. if you have some spots that are low spots that show up, some back and do little patches of fairing, again...dry sand and level.

 

once things are looking pretty good with that, you are ready for the primer filler. spray the whole boat good and let it dry.. auto primer dries way fast..no need to worry about sanding it while its wet, it'll take like 30 min to be ready to go. once you have the first coat of primer filler, you should be able to see any inconsistencies in the fairing better now. hit any big high spots with dry sanding..orbital first and then by hand..start with rough paper and move up from there. whack those spots you sanded with more primer filler. now you are ready for wet sanding. start with 200 grit wet dry and hand sand the whole panel..round orbital strokes first, then long horizontal. try to use this to level the primer out. you will prob sand to glass in a few places. come back finer 400 grit mabye and do a quick wet sand. if it still looks a little rough you can do another coat with the primer filler and wet sand more. if its level, just give the boat a quick blast with some straight primer and come back and give it a quick sand with 200 and then 400 wet dry...try to smooth the last primer coat out so that it is smooth and fine but covers all the glass.

 

you should now have a very smooth and well prepped surface for painting. i described the differant methods for painting...you'll probably want to use a super low knap foam trim roller..there are nice ones at the paint store. if you are familiar with rolling teqnique, you can get a nice finish without any lines with just the roller..remember...super super long straight strokes and even pressure. you may have better finish results taking a good quality paint brush and "tipping off" the paint after you have rolled it. again here you want to use long straight even strokes. start at the front and one nice long stroke all the way to the back. if you have to come off the brush stroke, slowy relieve the pressure on the bristsles with making the stroke, until the brush comes off...this will hide the end of the stroke so you dont have lap marks and just tip the paint off so it has good even texture.

 

also, remember what i said about the boat building addiction? once your boat is done, all you want to do is build another. terry is obviously already suffering from  such syndrome.  i would take him up on his offer for help if he is local to you based on the looks of his finished craft.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Loudenslager on April 8, 2011 at 1:13pm

When I fiberglass a side panel I tape the glass to the bottom panel, letting it overhang down the side.  The glass covers the entire panel.

 

I mix epoxy (small quantities) and pour it into a shallow pan.  Then I use a 1/8 nap roller (the yellow ones) and pick up epoxy and start wetting out the cloth.  Start in the center and work towards the ends. Once the cloth is wet-out I squeegee off the excess epoxy.  Also, I put a coat of epoxy on the plywood panel and let it cure, and sand lightly before the laying out the glass.  Using that technique you won't have a problem with epoxy starved glass/plywood interface. 

 

There are several approaches to accomplishing each of these tasks, and most builders adopt methods that suit their personal whims. 

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Permalink Reply by Terry E Walsh on April 8, 2011 at 2:53pm

First time is a b........! Ben, it does get easier. Fort collins plastics sells a roller that has spikes on it that pushes around the cloth and gets it very level while it is still wet. Keep rolling and working it untill it gets real tacky and you will be able to get it how you want it to look. Put the next layer of cloth over the green coat you just did and work it out untill flat with that roller and a trowel if you need to use that also. Do not let it get to dry between the layers of glass you are putting on so it will bond all as one. If you want my cell number for some help,... g-mail me, I will call you or come help you out. It takes two sometimes to get it on the boat just right. Terry

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