Wooden Boat People
By McKenzieDriftBoat.com
A show of hands Please!
Do I purchase a used wooden boat and restore it?
Do I make one from absolute scratch?($?????.??)
Do I buy a kit? (Montana Boat Builders) ($10,000 at most)
Do I buy a brand new perfect boat($22,000) this does include travel including fishing in Montana.
Do I buy a fiber glass boat ( ok that was an attempt at humor) haha.....crickets chirping ( tough crowd!)
I know these seem like silly questions however they may help more folks than just me.
Now let me just say, I am fairly handy ( knows how to use a hammer).
Views: 2014
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on
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Christian, restoring a boat will teach you how an older boat is built, how to use a lot of hand tools, especially scrapers and sanders, You will be able to make mistakes without major consequences, a slip of a scraper or a error in measuring or cutting won't be the end of the world. You will find out after you complete the job and do some floating and fishing if the boat is the right design for your needs. I haven't read of or heard of a builder that after building one boat that doesn't want to build a second or third boat giving them a chance to incorporate different design characteristics or features they now want. If you hang around these pages long enough you will see some pretty neat and unique ideas that would be great to have on your boat.
Building a boat from a kit, be it a Montana Boat Builders or a McKenzie Drift Boat Kit allows you to not worry about designing a boat but rather assembling and finishing the boat. You'll still get to learn about tools and their useage, less scraping, still lots of sanding and finishing.
Buying a completed boat will provide an instant boat, the ability to fish immediately, but not the satisfaction provided by the sweat equity in the boat's construction nor the bragging rights to say, I built this boat! Much like tying flies and catching your first fish on a product created by your own hands, even if no one is there to watch the feeling still is.
Building your own boat from scratch to me would be the ultimate satisfaction. While I haven't yet done that I have done lots of creative work on my house and others either totally from scratch or with only a bare frame to start. I will always have the feeling of accomplishment that provided.
so I know others will have their own opinions the decision is ultimately yours, time and knowledge, money and immediate results or some combination of these and other factors.
I hope that this helps, take it for what you paid for it!
Happy waves and sawdust to you!
Rick Newman
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Permalink Reply by justin nicola on
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i wanted to restore one for quite some time but could not find the right boat to restore. wound up building from scratch and it was a great experience. what rick says about margin for error is absolutely right. but remember, you are your own worst critic. at the end of the day a boat is a functional item that is designed to float, get you outside, and near fish. as for cost on building from scratch, i bet i have $2500 into the boat i built, but i made it a point not to keep track. i also used mahogany and white oak, both expensive. i personally would not consider buying a kit, since the wood work is half the fun.
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Permalink Reply by lhedrick on
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I have built a few fishing and whitewater boats, all are Mckenzie style.
I can handle tools and build almost anything and I can say a basic Mckenzie boat is about as easy as it gets. Anyone can do it with no worries.
22000 dollars??????? Not sure what sense that makes. 10000 for a kit to save on a few cuts of 6 long straight lines. There is a place for moulded fiberglass boats but, not for the people who hang out here. If you want a 400 pound boat they will do the job but I won't row one of them.
If you want a show boat, art work, that's another deal. After building a bunch of boats, I love those beautiful all wood show boats but, I think I will stick with the basic fishing boat covered with oil base house paint at 30 dollars a gallon. I know a fellow who is just finishing a show quality boat using all auto paint. The paint costs was more then the hulls I build. If you like doing hundreds of hours of detail work then go for it. If you want a basic drift boat that's fine too. You don't need to spend 10000 on a kit which includes 2500 in materials.
I build with composites, and wood in many combinations. A 16 foot bare bones composite boat can be done finished at 200 pounds but, there are some elements of the construction which take some time. Do the same thing with all plywood it will be 50 - 75 pounds more but still far superior to anything which comes out of a mould.
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Permalink Reply by Christian Lazarides on
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The $22,000 breaks down like this
$14,905.00 for the Recurve Kingfisher
$3,500 for extras and upgrades
$3,595.00 travel and misc expenses for 2 people for a week and I went a bit on the heavy side. This I believe also included a trailer.
The reason I chose the most expensive model is because, if I build my own I will make it that quality and exactly how I want it.
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Ps I was totally joking about buying a glorified fiberglass tub, ( fiberglass boats)
Also I have done some research. I will need to buy a lot of tools. As I have almost none. $3,000 on the heavy side, you can never have to many clamps. As another side note, whether you buy a kit or build one from scratch you need the same tools. This being said this whole discussion boils down objectively to, do I want to spend the time to build a boat or do I want to spend less time and build a kit. The in turn boils down again to do I want to be able to say I Built and designed this! Or I put a kit together.
Gentleman, I have made up my mind. I will be building one from scratch!
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Sorry for droning on.
Building one from scratch will also allow me to spread out the expenses of tool and material purchases.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Collier on
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You can build the Kingfisher pretty easily if you get a kit....
I built it WITHOUT a kit and here is the near fished product.........
If I was doing this boat again for the first time, I would get the kit and shorten the build time by 2 months, but, I wanted to know it all from scratch so I just bought the plans and all the lumber etc. trying to cut costs, but ended up spending more than I would have if I had just bought everything from Jason.
I had to buy tools as I went along too, but was still able to complete the project under 6K - and hey, I have a brand new boat, Bragging rights included.........and now I have the tools to build another one so go figure..............I am one of those who wont be able to have just one boat and I
am already scheeming on how to get started on the next one.
The Recurve is a different model but I did include the Recurve Kneebraces.
I didn't have plans for the kneebraces so I winged it using my own design.
It worked out good and I am pleased with the results.
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Very well done!
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Permalink Reply by Don Hanson on
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I'd say you probably don't want to restore a used wooden boat. It takes as much (or more) experience to properly restore a wooden boat as it does to build a new one from a kit. Depending on how much 'restoring' your hypothetical used wooden boat needs, of course. You'll probably have about the same number of hours in the restoring job as you would if you built a whole kit. When your restoration job is done (I just finished restoring an 'average condition' Don HIll 16'..see my other posts here , blog and pics) you'll still have to abide by the building decisions previously made by the original builder.
It's economically unfeasible to try to re-vise everything in an older boat as you restore it, and most older boats do have some compromises that were made...for various reasons. Home-made ones may have mistakes in them due to lack of builder's skill or knowledge of proper methods. Professional builders had to make some money as they worked, so they economized where they thought they could get away with it. On a restoration job, you are pretty much stuck with re-doing what is there already.
Now if you are a 'collector' or get off on having cool older stuff, there are plenty of used woodies out there that'll appear to be great deals. You can even find free ones. It is not a simple thing, however, to restore a boat and get it back on the water again, in sustainable condition . It's tempting, to a boat-rookie, to do it "quick and dirty" Many just trowel on a bunch of epoxy goo, throw bondo in the holes, fiberglass over the old thing and float it once or twice....That's were a lot of these Free Boats come from...
As mentioned in another post, often people who've build their first boat immediately want to do another "better" one. Or a different one.
Given unlimited time, almost anyone can produce a wonderful 'work of art' boat, eventually. Amateur builders fall in love with the challenge and beauty of the process and build boats just for the fun and satisfaction of it. They do "Gold-platers" that are almost too nice to get wet. As a Hobby. Other's see shortcomings in the basic designs they've produced and whip out another, quick as they can, to try some new ideas on the water. A few even become Boatbuilders. Tradesmen. Try to do it for income. Not many of us around anymore.
With modern composites, adhesives and coatings, we can build even better boats now. I do like using mainly uni-directional cellulose in my creations. AKA...wood. When wood's used intelligently and integrated with some plastics, I can build a much better boat than I could make in the old days. Much much better! A boat that it's possible to own and use and not have to always be saying...."Yeah, with lots of 'reasonable care' and proper maintenance, it will last just as long as a ____________boat, or a ____________ one, and it has more "Character and charm"" like all the old-time framed plywood boat guys have to say, with some truth.
In my opinion, if you want to own a boat and use it over time, buy one that is built already.. Modern mostly-wooden boats are excellent. They have few of the 'issues' we have to deal with on the older wooden craft and they don't "weigh a ton" or "Clonk! loudly and freeze your butt"...They don't look like a Port-O-Pottys, tipped over without a door, either. They can be built specifically to please each owner...Not assembled from modular pieces chosen from a drop down menu and popped out of a mold and riveted in place.
Spam.
I'd love to build you one right now. Looking for customers. Rea$onable and skilled. contact me off the forum for ideas.
Don Hanson
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Don, do you have a website? Or pics of your work?
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I don't have a website. posted here on this forum, in the Blog section, are some pics of my recent resto of the Don Hill 16-footer. I am working on a website. Contact me off the list for some other boat pics from my apprenticeship days, etc(before digital photos).
In reply to your later post about 'displacement' and handling...if you think a heavier boat would 'hold' better (and they will, if it is just wind you are dealing with...current is another consideration) just take more beer or fill it with other ballast.
Weight in a boat as a 'performance enhancment' considerations?....well, you can always add weight but you can never add 'lightness'.
I amazed a few of my river guide buddies when I lived in Jackson Hole with my first-ever dory....a 14' Rogue River design, built as a 'strip-planked and glass' ultra light. I am recalling about 175-200lbs total weight. I could carry it alone, upside down on my back. Using whitewater techniques from kayaking and canoeing, that boat was amazingly nimble. If I wanted it to "stick" ferrying across some windy river like the Madison, I would simply slide my passenger(s) to one side and stick the chine (no chine cap) into the water deeper as we crossed the current or the wind.
With light weight comes shallow draft and reduced inertia....good things for most water...When needed, which I found to be seldom, it is easy to add weight..
Of course that boat was not very durable at that weight and being laid up with polyester resin and normal glass...but it sure was fun to row and to "Wow" the other guy's with it's outstanding capabilities on the river or on the launch ramp.
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What was not durable about your boat?
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