A show of hands Please!

Ok it is dilemma time!

Do I purchase a used wooden boat and restore it?
Do I make one from absolute scratch?($?????.??)
Do I buy a kit? (Montana Boat Builders) ($10,000 at most)
Do I buy a brand new perfect boat($22,000) this does include travel including fishing in Montana.
Do I buy a fiber glass boat ( ok that was an attempt at humor) haha.....crickets chirping ( tough crowd!)

I know these seem like silly questions however they may help more folks than just me.

Now let me just say, I am fairly handy ( knows how to use a hammer).

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Permalink Reply by Don Hanson on June 8, 2011 at 11:58am

  Polyester resin is more brittle than epoxy.  It bonds poorly to wood and is vulnerable to UV...

More technically, I understand what actually happens is that the wood, actually,  at the interface of the coating matix, deteriorates slightly over time and solar exposure.  This weakens the bond between the glass coating and the core.

  That was my first ever dory.  I'd done some canoes and kayaks but never a dory and I made some poor decisions about scantlings (dimensions of material) due to being an almost rookie. 

The 'flat-in one direction' panels of a dory...they behave much differently than a compound curve as might be found on other hull shapes.  I looked at my 16' stripper canoe and thought "Hey, 1/8" thick works here, I'll do the same on the dory and just add an extra layer of glass"  That was much too light for durable use over the years. 

Also, a single layer of Western Red Cedar as the core, that had good strength with the grain, but not the other axis..so the whole load of any rock encountered was transmitted along the strips and carried almost totally by a few thin light layers of polyester resin and s-glass.

  I have learned a lot in the 30-odd (and I do mean odd) years I have been building boats, off and on,  since that one.  New materials have emerged and  methods have been devised to use the new 'stuff'  effectively.  Wood, however, remains highly viable as an engineering material.  Racing sailboats, ultralight aircraft, wind generator blades, River Dorys...even bicycle frames are being made with wood as the basic component, that are unsurpassed by constructs using other materials. 

  That old dory hit one too many rock in the Madison and split it's bottom once too often.    Now, I might have used a foam core bottom for strength and some Kevlar to keep the rocks out and epoxy for flexibility with a coat or two of UV resistant finish elsewhere..I could still make a 14 footer that came out at ~200lbs that would last almost forever...with newer methods....

  but, the water wouldn't care...

 

Permalink Reply by Christian Lazarides on June 8, 2011 at 12:37pm
Do you think 1/4" would have worked better? I want to do a s&g boat and I know I would feel better about the scarf joint being stronger with 1/4". I am in no hurry to get on the water. I am using this project to help me slow down and become more methodical. Kind of like tying flies or bamboo rod making. The end result will only be as good as I am willing to make it. If I need to get on the water I'll bang out a plywood job just give myself a little practice. I absolutely want a show piece. I don't ever plan on fishing violent water like the Colorado or the New River in WV. I have a perpetual fear of drowning. Silly I know, but I swim like a rock haha.
Permalink Reply by lhedrick on June 8, 2011 at 6:11pm

I have used 1/8 - (4MM) plywood to build sea kayaks.  It's too thin to scarff, use a but joint backed with another 1/8 plywood plate to cover the joint.

 

I have to say that anything from Jason of Montana boat builders is real art work but here goes.  I just don't get the appeal of that recurve boat.  To each their own I guess.

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on June 8, 2011 at 6:44pm

Don, correct me if I'm wrong but the drift boat you built was from strip2 of 1/8" plywood. Plywood instead of traditional planks each over lapping the next. Not to be confused with entire panels made of plywood such as recent drift boat designs.

 

Rick Newman

Permalink Reply by Don Hanson on June 8, 2011 at 7:30pm

  No, Randy

 

  I used red cedar strips, just like a canoe....Only I ripped them from clear cedar decking 2X stock and then edge-glued them onto temporary frames.  Then I popped the staples out and glassed the outside before flipping it over.

  On the inside of the chine I used glass rope as my filet...which had not be probably thought of then...the 'filet' as we now know it.  Or maybe I had just never seen or read or heard of anyone doing them back then.

  That was a pretty dumb try, but it rowed like crazy, was really pretty and it cost me hardly anything to build.   I learned from that, for sure.

Permalink Reply by Christian Lazarides on June 8, 2011 at 7:42pm
I like the idea and look of strips, I was thinking of white oak though. If using strips do you think 1/4 is to thick? Wile I understand plywood is stronger I do not want to paint the outside. I would prefer to see the wood. Does the combination of glass and chines not make the boat stiff enough?
Permalink Reply by Don Hanson on June 8, 2011 at 7:18pm

  Strip-planking for a dory bottom is not very good use of time or materials, I discovered.  The joints connecting the strips are potential 'hinges' that have no need to be there.  In a panel like the bottom or sides of dorys, the material needs to bend in just one axis.  Plywood or any of the core materials do that just fine.  It's only when a boat has a compound curved shape that strip planking is needed..and even there there are other stronger way to build with wood.  Multiple layers laid in different directions (called Cold molding) make a stronger more ridged structure.

  That 'stripper' was simply too lightly built..an experiment that sort of worked well enough for me...but it was flimsey and not durable enough in use..

  Don Hanson

Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on June 8, 2011 at 9:46am

There are a number of great wooden boats in Oregon for $4,000 or so.  I know of one 16.5 by 50 framed boat from a Tatman kit that has a show boat finish and custom cover for $4,500.  If you want to get on the water that is a great way to go. BTW, that size is very popular with some guides in the West because it is just big enough to outfit with two guests and still be small enough to row every day all summer in rough technical water.

 

If you want to get you hands dirty then restoration is a great way to learn about the boat's construction but re-construction techniques are different than most building techniques. It can be less expensive than kit building and you get the added feel goods of keeping an older boat alive for years.

 

A good used boat for 2k and a few months to work on it can teach you a lot!

Permalink Reply by Christian Lazarides on June 8, 2011 at 9:56am
Randy,

Restoration is an option, but to be honest it is the last one on my list. I have two options for the boat that I want to build. With and with out chines. I haven't quite made up my mind which I want. Both have advantages.

A boat with chines will be heavier than one with out. However this would also mean harder to row and sits in the water lower, however it would also hold against the wind better. A lighter boat, and I am assuming all of this, would sit higher in the water, be moved easier by the wind and perhaps a little more difficult to control.
Permalink Reply by Dave Z on June 8, 2011 at 10:48am

1. buy a good condition used wood boat like Sandy suggests.  If you HAVE to get on the water soon.

2. build from plans or a kit depending on your confidence. Be realistic

3. I'll take any of these "free" wood boats you guys find!

 

I'll be a jerk but a S&G boat is a "wood core" fiberglass boat.  hahahaha.

Seriously, S&G or framed, they are all good.

 

The chine batten debate may or may not matter depending on the water you row.  Doesn't mean squat on my local water.

The amount of rocker and bottom profile has more to do with how a boat will sit in the water and row than side height.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Mike Baker on June 8, 2011 at 1:58pm

I would definitely recommend scratch from some good plans or a kit. Restoring is as much work if not more than building from scratch. Also I think a framed boat is easier than stitch & glue (although I have not personally built a stitch & glue).

Mike

http://www.bakerwooddriftboats.com/

http://bend.craigslist.org/boa/2375835146.html
Permalink Reply by Adam "Dutch" Gottschling on June 8, 2011 at 5:03pm

Hey Christian,

 Also look into a Rapid Robert or Skiff design. If it's lakes and mild rivers you have. They would both allow you to mount a small motor and really have some fun. A Rapid Robert is a great utility boat that you can make into a show piece. Ask Dave Borba, he has a REALLY nice stitch and glue he built from scratch.

 

Just a thought.

Dutch

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