Boat Sizing

Hi all,

I'm new to boat building and have a few questions.  I will be primarily fishing in Montana, Idaho (Clearwater) and Washington (all rivers with some lakes as well).  Mostly I will be fishing in Montana.  I've been reading a lot about Spira International's mid-Western design.  I'm thinking that might be the best design for my fishing needs but I don't know.  


What designs work best for fishing fast water and lakes?  Is there an ideal design to do both?

 

What is the best size to use for fishing 3 people (one rower and two fisherman)?

 

Any ideas is greatly appreciated.  I'm planning on buying plans and building it myself.  This boat will be a fishing vessel not a show piece. Thanks!

 

Cheers,

 

Joe Gill

Townsend, MT

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Permalink Reply by Dan Hooper on June 21, 2011 at 2:09pm
Montana River Boats has some good plans for your needs http://montana-riverboats.com/.  Sandy has an excellent site with a building forum also.
Permalink Reply by Mike Baker on June 21, 2011 at 2:24pm

Hey Joe,

New to boat building then get Rogers book http://www.riverstouch.com/. Also the Don Hill boats have a pretty big flat spot that makes them an O.K. lake boat (no drift boat works real great with a motor on it) and a very good river boat. They are good plans but Rogers book does a better job of teaching you how to build a boat.

Mike

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on June 21, 2011 at 4:34pm

I second Mike's opinion!

 

Rick Newman

Permalink Reply by Roger Fletcher on June 23, 2011 at 8:33pm
"What designs work best for fishing fast water and lakes?  Is there an ideal design to do both?" It's hard to beat a Rapid Robert as a good, functional dual purpose boat, especially if you plan to hang a motor on the boat for lake or other fishing. Ray and Cyrus build at least three versions of this old classic (http://www.raysriverdories.com/driftboat_MckenzieRiverSpecs.html), and there are several people on this forum who have built the boat from scratch. Plans are in my book, but they are also available free on line. Explore John Kohnen's fascinating nautical site and his "mother of all nautical links" (http://www.boat-links.com/boatlink.html). Talk about a man obsessed. The RR plans are somewhere there. Just one more thought.
Permalink Reply by Joseph Gill on June 26, 2011 at 10:54am

Thanks everyone for all of the great advice!

 

Roger, 

Thanks for recommending the Rapid Robert.  It looks like a great compromise.  I'll likely be building this one.  I just have a few questions about the design.  Also, I will also likely be getting a copy of your book.  

 

Do you recommend building a strong back like a lot of these other modern boat builders do?  If not why?

 

Does your design have stitch and glue or epoxy covered plywood on the finished product?  If not epoxy on ply, could a guy improvise the design and do epoxy on ply instead?

 

Thanks again!!

 

Joe  Gill

Townsend, MT

Permalink Reply by Roger Fletcher on June 27, 2011 at 10:50am
The Rapid Robert is designed to be built free form -- no strongback or jig. The frames serve to give the boat its shape. The building technique for this boat therefore reduces time and costs. Stitch and glue construction is different and requires forms to shape the boat. Sandy at Montana Riverboats has some instructions on building a traditional framed boat such as the RR as stitch and glue (http://www.montana-riverboats.com/phorum/read.php?3,14362,14362#msg...). The nature of the plywood skin as well as your desired finish will determine whether or not you want to fuss with epoxy resin. The resin can provide a suitable base for paint and/or varnish. And if you are lucky enough to find good quality fir panels it might be prudent to glass the inside panels with 4 ounce cloth to prevent checking.
Permalink Reply by lhedrick on June 27, 2011 at 8:35pm

If you build without a strong back make sure you check for twists.  The last boat I built stitch and glue I used a beam to attach the temporary frames.  All the temporary frames were lined up before the side and bottom were glued on.  I had no twists in the hull to pull out.  

 

If you build free from you may need to get things aligned.  You can check by placing a straight board across the sides at the chine (the boat being upside down on the frames).  Place a square on the board and check for plumb.  You will need a level floor for this or shim your stands to get the bottom at the chine level.  Clamps and straps can be used to pull things into shape.  When things look good glue the bottom on which will lock things in place.

Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on June 27, 2011 at 10:11pm

Larry has it right. 

 

You can also easily check for rack by tapping a small nail into the fore most center of the stem, then run a string to one outside corner of the transom. Mark the string and then measure the other transom corner.  It should be on the same mark.  If not, use a ratchet strap to pull any rack out of the boat and insure the two distances are the same.

Permalink Reply by Jake Van Noppen on June 29, 2011 at 7:19pm
Joe,

I'm on the same search as you. I just sold my Clackacraft and think I have finally settled on building 2 boats to fit my needs. I live in Missoula and as I found the rivers out here compared to Oregon are freestone with not allot of whitewater. My Clacka was just to big for the water around here and after rowing a few low sides and skiffs i came to the conclusion that the best boat for Montana for me is a skiff. Montana boat builders has a great skiff that you get the plans for or the kit. Now for big water (which I still fish), I would sink the skiff so I plan on building a framed 16-17ft hyside driftboat for steelhead fishing. I don't think there is one boat that does it all but for were you live the skiff may be the best option. And there are some skiffs that i've seen with the higher sides that look like they would work as well. Hope this helps.
Permalink Reply by Joseph Gill on June 29, 2011 at 9:04pm

Hi Jake,

Thanks for the reply.  I have been having a tough time deciding.  I did purchase Roger's book.  Although I have not gotten it yet.  I will be taking a good look at the boats in there for sure.  I've also been looking at Spria International's Mid-Western design.  It really looks like a nice compromise.  http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_yuko.html  Also the Rapid-Robert is an old classic that does it all.  I'm torn between the two.  The Rapid-Robert is nice because it has a transom and it can be motored easily.  It also does really well in the rapids.  We'll see.  I'm hoping to get to do some rowing this season and test at least one or two designs that are out there.  I think that'll be the only way to get a real feel for some of these designs.  I'm in no hurry.  Although it would sure be nice to have something ready for Duck season.   

 

I lived in Missoula for a while when I went to college.  Oddly enough, I didn't really fish the Clark Fork much.  I prefer the rivers East of the continental divide here in Montana. 

 

Joe Gill

Townsend, MT

Permalink Reply by Jake Van Noppen on July 1, 2011 at 4:29pm

Joe,

 

I too mostly fish the rivers out east of the divided and guide on the Smith River when I'm not working for the fire dept.  Rogers book is awesome and he's a great resource as well, I read the book cover to coever and still use it as a refrence.  Roger put allot of work into getting all the classic designs correct and did a hell of job with the illustrations.  It's definatley money well spent, let me know what you plan on going with and maybe i'll see you out east. 

 

Jake

 

 

Permalink Reply by Joseph Gill on July 1, 2011 at 7:01pm

Jake -

I sure will let you know as things progress.  I'm in no hurry to build.  I want to understand everything prior to getting started.  Also, I'm saving my money and piecing it together as I get the money.  Right now I really like the "Rapid Robert" as a boat.  I'll likely build that.

 

Roger -

I just got a copy of your book.  I really really like it.  I've already read a lot of it.  

 

Do the plans available on your website (the 1" scaled plans) include a materials sheet?

After reading much of the assembly chapter, I am still unlcear of how to read the dimmensions on the plans.  I measured them all with a ruler and I'm coming up with a much different number than that is listed on the plans (even doubling it for scaling.)

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.  Thanks guys!!!

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