New to the wood boat world

Sorry for posting, I know there are plenty of posts on us newbies. I'm a long time river guide in Idaho on the Middle Fork of the Salmon, I've run wooden boats in the past ( Not on the MF) and finally decided to start my own project just the other day. I went with a restore project as I don't have a ton of experience with woodwork. Just mainly looking for a craft that's in good shape in structure and sound. 

I think I found it, it's an old Don Hill Pram, 10' built by Don. Just found out she'll be turning 30 in July. I picked it up for $300 so I felt that was a fair price. I've attached pictures of the boat and what I've got it down to now. I just took out the floors and seats as I'd like to put in 2 benches and a railing on the sides for fishing gear, similar to what Dave Z's Pram benches look like. I also HAD to remove that seat in front on the metal post, that was driving me nuts.

I have some questions. I've removed the floors and seats, I'd like to know if I can even make 2 benches fit in this little guy, I'd think the front bench should have hinges on it so you can set it up and have extra space to stand and fish. What's your thoughts? Where would I anchor the benches? I would think to frame the whole thing and anchor it as a unit. 

But I'm getting ahead of myself. First thing I need help with is the glass on the bottom. It's in rough shape and needs to be replaced. What is the best way to do that? I've heard a heat gun works? Would love some thought on that. It looks like it was a quick job when it was done last. They just went over the chine, a little sloppy. (which is where it's separating) I have seen your plans for that Randy, and I like the idea of going under the chine. How far up the sides should I go? There is one place I can see that was repaired from it hit of some sort, seems sound to me, should I glass over that to make it more sound?

Also the front of the boat, the wood there is very thin to me, I can make it flex by pushing on it. No rot or anything like that. Should I cut another piece just like it and epoxy it to the orginal and glass them both? Or should I just glass it as is and see it that makes it stronger?

I don't want to get in over my head, please let me know what I should avoid. I'm thinking I'm going to sell this one to be able to afford a McKenzie 14-16' so I can take it on the whitewater. I'd like keep it looking with a nice wood finish, I know I don't need to tell you guys how great a wood boat looks in a nice finish. 

Thanks for any and all advise, I really appreciate it.  

 

Collin

I've also attached a picture of the pealing of the glass on the side.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Baker on January 24, 2013 at 3:50pm

Rick,

I heard one today, "there is no scrap wood just pieces for smaller projects". Glad to hear progress is good and look forward to seing the boat. What color did you go with?

Mike

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on January 24, 2013 at 6:12pm

That's a good one. The color is complimentary to the woods in my boat; Ash, Sapelle or Meranti whichever it is, white Oak and Alaskan Yellow Cedar. Close to the color of the Add Reply box here. I looked at 100 plus color chips before I chose this one. I'm using the two part, water based polyurethane from Comex / Parker Paints. I also have a gloss to add on top of the color coats.  I have been doing lots of sanding with an auto body torture board and filling divits with a kevlar based material, sanding and then filing again.

Rick

Permalink Reply by Collin Ponzo on July 21, 2013 at 10:11pm

Hey Guys, hope you're all well. I'm getting ready to do the bottom, I know one trick is to cut it 1/4in long and sand it to be perfect. 

Are there any other tricks, or such for measuring? Do I just start at one end and screw it down until I get to the other to get the right rocker? Do I need to get the wood wet to make it more pliable?

Thanks again, don't worry, I still need to get this done as I've bought 2 more! A 16' McKinz and a 19' Grand Canyon Dory, has floor rot too, but the whole thing is glassed and painted- 

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on July 22, 2013 at 7:08am

Colin, having only put a bottom on once I can share a small amount of experience. When I followed Greg Tatman's instructions I started by roughly aligning the plywood now in an upside down position, installing two temporary screws on each side an inch from center, one front, one rear. I had to use straps and weight to get the bottom to conform as I have 18 oz glass laminated to the inside of the floor. I then traced the floor outline, flipped the plywood and cut to 1/4"  or so of clearance. I have seen some folks who are more trusting of their skills than I use a saber saw to cut at an angle equal to the side. My hand planes and belt sander helped trim the edges.

I then had to lift the bottom off far enough that I could apply 5200 to the bottom of the frame members. I would make a change here, I didn't mark where the 5200 would hit the floor so I couldn't mask off the floor where I didn't want 5200 to appear after I flipped the boat. I would also mask the frame members. I find it much easier to be proactive and just strip off tape than dried 5200! I have spent about an hour and only removed the goop from the two rear sections!

Again because I had laminated interior of the floor I had to battle to bend the plywood with straps and weights to get it to comply. The pictures are on another computer so I will have to share those later. Greg suggested that you place screws every two inches starting at the center and working toward the ends. Don't forget to mark where your frame members meet the sides before you fasten the plywood. It is easy to miss the frame members when you screw it down. Not only are the screws unsightly they can be painful if you step on them.:<)

There is also a tool that Greg suggested. It's a piece of scrap wood cut to hold a pencil at the proper angle and distance from the boat's side to scribe the location of the chine log so you can align those screws properly since screwing to the end grain of the plywood won't have much strength. I can take a picture of you have a question about this.

Every stainless steel screw recieved a quick coat of Life Caulk by Boatlife. It is polysulfide and remains plyable for a long time. The important issue is keeping water from entering the inner layer of the plywood to prevent the rot you have found.

Since my boat's bottom was so stiff I had to finally place screws every 1/2" to pull the bottom down. I still had a few gaps so I filled them with thickened epoxy and covered it with a strip of fiberglass cloth and more epoxy. The boat doesn't leak so I must have done the right things! Hope this helps.

PS, pictures help, we would love to see more of them. I can help you post them if you want.

Rick N

Permalink Reply by Collin Ponzo on July 22, 2013 at 7:12am

Rick, 

Thanks for this. I'll take some pics today or tomorrow when I start it up again. I've got many straps that would work great. 

So are you saying that you glassed the floor before you cut it and placed it on the boat? Both sides?

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on July 22, 2013 at 8:20am

Colin, after listening to and seeing what had happened to Greg Hatten's boat (front floor damage) I decided that reinforcing the interior of the floor so that if an impact occurred the fiberglass would be in tension and therefore a greater chance that to resist or limit damage. So I laminated 18 oz triaxial fabric to the inside, it had the weave filled and sanded smooth.

I also laminated 18 ounce triaxial to the outside/bottom of the floor after I installed it. I filled the weave with epoxy and one of the West System's fillers. I then added three coats of epoxy and graphite for abrasion resistance. So far so good, not much water under it and no major scratches.

The floor is incredibly stiff, no oil canning here.

Rick N

Permalink Reply by Chris Anderson on July 25, 2013 at 8:14pm

All these comments are great - I would not dump the boat restoration - I think it is a simple but time consuming process to restore but read more on this site and don't over restore - after a few boats I have realized that less is more...

Permalink Reply by Phillip Westendorf on July 25, 2013 at 8:12pm

Collin, 

You need only to glass the inside prior to mounting it to the framing.  Then after it's secured in place with 5200, epoxy or whatever and screwed down, you'll need to glass the bottom surface.

I personally think 18 oz. biax is a bit much unless your planning on the Colorado at 100,000 gps.  I used 6 Oz. with two layers.  A little on the light side but here in Michigan we don't have the fast water you'll find out West.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Dorf

Permalink Reply by Collin Ponzo on August 2, 2013 at 7:09am

Here'e the progress, got the bottom cut, went long on the sides which I'm very happy I did as the bottom fits tighter in some places.

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Permalink Reply by Collin Ponzo on August 2, 2013 at 7:10am

Here's a couple more pics.

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