How is everything with you, I picked interest on you after going through your short profile and deemed it necessary to write you immediately. I have something very vital to disclose to you, but I found it difficult to express myself here, since it's a public site.Could you please get back to me on:(mrsstellaabudheir@gmail.com ) for the full details.
Hey Andy: you may be back on the river, but thought I'd check in. We had a great time, kept the dory upright, wildest ride through Lava of course but sure thanks for the heads up on the others. Was looking at photos of the GC Exp. dories and am wondering if you can give me some idea of the hatch design you're using now. They look much better than my current old school briggs design.
Upset-? I always run left there..or try to, hee, hee. (at least get to the slot, just left of the hole at bottom). It's: "hey, diddle diddle, right down the middle", w/ current flows, though....(25k). Hole's washed-out...
-Yes, you can come in "tight" (to the left) at Specter (bow entry-best), and square-up to lateral wave feeding left to right. Anticipate an immediate-spin to right to meet the edge of large lateral wave/s off wall. (Or keep angle hard left and miss the "crunchy stuff", aiming for slack-water. (Not a bad idea to scout this...).
Granite has an "inside" entry at this water stage which is convenient. It's a floppy wave to the left of the burbles-(off left-side of main, rt. tounge), and it works to run the middle of this wave (floating, no-mo), and then square-up to laterals feeding rt. w/ a downstream ferry angle to left. This should take you towards left eddy or at least to left side of the monster tail waves (which seem to be feeding main current into the king-eddy on right. If you do end-up in K.E., you can escape down rt. side of island at this level. Scout this!
As a rule (for dories at least), levels at 20K+: Less rock crunching. More flip potential. Brad's right. Go practice flip drills, (an then you won't flip on the river..).
You may be downstream by this time, but I just returned from a trip last night, so sorry for the delay. We had 25k flows and it's over-all a "forgiving level" for hard-hulls. Left entry at Hance, Right at Crystal, and of course, left at Lava. -Just gotta' be looking ahead and paying attention to the boily-stuff in the gorges. The old "anticipation thing". Specter is getting fairly juicy and be ready to meet a large lateral off the wall there by squaring-up with your bow there. Plenty of room at House Rock and Bedrock to get further right where needed. Tail waves in House Rock are impressive right now. There's a further left entry, also at Granite to hopefully get you left of the wave-train at the bottom, tail waves...(as King Edward really wants you, there...).
-Bout all I can think of right now. When in doubt scout and have a fabulous trip.
Upset is a minor rapid at that stage--go for the biggest waves you can find down the left. Dubendorff is also a beautiful wave train. Down the left and ride the waves.
I've beard Specter is pretty snappy at these flows.
Wow, where to start?
Ballast your load well. Lots of heavy stuff low and centered, fluffy stuff high, holding it in place. Light dories flip a lot easier.
Hit the waves as straight as you can, and if you have passengers, really work on high-siding. A little weight on their toes instead of their butts, ready to forcefully put their weight into the waves and then return to center.
Do a few flip drills (before the trip in a warm lake is nice!) so that if you do roll it you'll have her up FAST before she hits anything.
Quick release ties for at least the first spare oars.
Right in House Rock, left to center in Hance, Center in Horn Creek, down the gut in Granite and be ready to pivot toward the wall 2/3 of the way through (there's a lateral coming off the wall that flips dories who fail to point at it), down the gut at Hermit YAHOO!, right a Crystal, left at Upset, left at Lava. The left entry at Lava is letter than most folks think--that's why they go off the ledge.
But mostly just have big fun.
Also, I recommend beer, whiskey, tequila, and gin and tonics. Best not all at once except below Lava.
We would be happy to point you in a good direction when you arrive in Jackson. The river will be low but runnable and fishing should be good. I will be off Steelhead fishing at that time but Dutch and Kevin will be happy to help you out. Give them a call.
I posted a photo of 3 of us running the hole at Joe Hutch. The flow takes you straight to it. Notice the slack water in the front of the image. There is enough time to move around this hole. At 2300 it was fairly deep. It was our plan to give it a shot for kicks.
My friend Jeremy (another dory builder) is at the oars. When we went in I had all 225 pounds of me on top of the front tube and got pushed back. For some reason some of the folks I boat with don't like to put much air in their boats. They always taco up on this stuff.
Since it's not a wood boat photo I will take it down after you take a look.
Our second boat had a 20 year old lumber yard frame. 2 X 6 and steel tube. The person who runs the boat also loves to run a very soft boat. Like 1 PSI, I'm not kidding. When they went into the bottom of the hole the boat tacoed and the 2 X 6 broke.
It's a nice hole so take a close look.
By the time you get there the bugs be gone. I got eaten.
Got off Deso today at 2:00. Flow is holding around 2400. While some runs were a bit boney, a dory would have been fine. Likely you would bump a few but not hard enough to be an issue.
Joe Hutch Rapid is ok at 2400 but, there is the possibility of difficulty. The entry is the same at 2400 as it was last Oct. The debris fan from last years flood has channeled the river to the left bank. The river accelerates quit a bit. The entry and first 60 feet or so have a wave train that starts at the tongue. The run is down the center.
Just below then entry waves you get about 50 feet of some fast flat water it leads right to a pour over and a hole. For fun we ran both our 16 foot rafts through that hole. We punched through just fine and took on some water. If you dig you should be able to slide left of this hole. Just below the hole the run is left along the ledges. Last year this section below where the hole is was filled with rocks and you had to get right or left. This springs 25000 flow has cleaned it out and it is now a much easier run.
I will try to get you a few images in the next day or so.
It will be rocky. At the first major rapid you will have a channel going on both sides of a large rock in the middle of the river. I took a rubber boat through first to get the line. The trick is to go slow and cushion off the rock and let the river decide which of the two channels you will take. After that you will have some serious rock gardens. It is doable in a light boat, but if you are carrying a lot of gear? Have fun.
We launch Monday Sept 14 and take out Sunday Sept 20.
I will keep track of the water and give you an update after our run. I want to take a look at Joe Hutch and see if I can spot the rock where my friend Ryan landed 2 times now.
We have a small trip of 5 with 2 rafts so to make transport easier I have decided to leave my dory home for this one. Just got back from fishing the Green section A. The reservoir is almost full and the flow seem to be running 1500 - 2400 each day. Haven't seen that much water in Sept in a long time. The flow in Deso is showing 2300 - 2400. The Yampa must be down to nothing. But we had 23 last year and that was enough for everything but made Joe Hutch interesting.
I will give you an update when I get back for sure. You can see some images of Joe Hutch taken by my friend Dave Inskeep when they ran last spring at 24000.
http://www.inskeepimages.com/g/highwaterdeso
My boat went down that trip with a friend while I used his raft on a Grand trip.
No problem with one exception which is Joe Hutch. Aug of 2008 Joe Hutch canyon flooded and choked the river off. At high water it's now a about a class IV. The entry is not a problem but you get moving real quick. After the entry the river is filled with rock. Last fall there was a right and left channel to run but, the current is pushing you right down river center. I got through on the right side last year Okay. But one member of our trip didn't get the move and he put his new Rouge boat into the rocks. We had to fix a hole in the side before we could continue.
A few weeks ago he put a hole in the bottom of the same boat at the same spot. As soon as you get past the entry you need try to start digging and slow down. I have a Sept 12 launch and plan on taking my boat. It's wood, if I put a hole in we fix it and float on.
I would also say the fellow who went into the rocks is a very good boater, but he has many years of big water runs down Cataract where he is on the oars full speed. I don't know if he has made the adjustment to his dory yet. He also ran Joe Hutch last spring and 25000 CFS which is more his thing. He pounds bit water with no trouble.
If the flow holds 2300 I would go for it. Just make sure you stop and take a look at Joe Hutch. Wire Fence, Chandler, Three Fords and Coal Creek get boney but are not trouble.
Deso is very nice in September.
My boat is a 14 footer and his is a 17 foot rogue which is lighter them mine since it was built with much more honeycomb and foam. If don't think I would take a big heavy Briggs down at 2300.
Many of my friends have already down the Grand this season and a few more have trips planned for Sept and Dec.
Many of my boating friends are in their 20s and are feeling the squeeze of our economic events are holding back on spending and time.
I am helping a friend put a trip together for next March 28. We have people but are a bit jammed up on boats. I still need to find 2 more boats to cove the people we already have. Any interest?
If I come up with anyone who is looking for a fall trip I will refer them to you.
Hey Jim, Congrats on scoring the Oct. Grand Trip, you lucky Bastard!
Let me know which "low water Rapidos" of concern you have and I'll give you my 2cts. worth.
Off the cuff:
Rt. to Left @ Horn Ck.
Left @ Crystal
Rt.@ Lava (in p.m.)
Rt. (not far Rt.) @ Dubbie.
Left (Always) @ Upset
Are you going to South Cove? (Pierce Ferry Rapid is now quite huge).
I'll give you more goary details if you wish, just let me know here.
Cheers, Andy
yours is the second fall trip I'll have to decline...I work in the Public School system, and taking three weeks off is seriously frowned upon...thanks so much for thinking of me though...and if you need a place to crash en route, I'm just off the freeway and would love to see your boat!
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Good Day,
How is everything with you, I picked interest on you after going through your short profile and deemed it necessary to write you immediately. I have something very vital to disclose to you, but I found it difficult to express myself here, since it's a public site.Could you please get back to me on:(mrsstellaabudheir@gmail.com ) for the full details.
Have a nice day
Thanks God bless.
Stella.
Hey Andy: you may be back on the river, but thought I'd check in. We had a great time, kept the dory upright, wildest ride through Lava of course but sure thanks for the heads up on the others. Was looking at photos of the GC Exp. dories and am wondering if you can give me some idea of the hatch design you're using now. They look much better than my current old school briggs design.
best, Jim
Jim, You're welcome...(My 2 cts. worth, anywway...).
Upset-? I always run left there..or try to, hee, hee. (at least get to the slot, just left of the hole at bottom). It's: "hey, diddle diddle, right down the middle", w/ current flows, though....(25k). Hole's washed-out...
J,
-Yes, you can come in "tight" (to the left) at Specter (bow entry-best), and square-up to lateral wave feeding left to right. Anticipate an immediate-spin to right to meet the edge of large lateral wave/s off wall. (Or keep angle hard left and miss the "crunchy stuff", aiming for slack-water. (Not a bad idea to scout this...).
Granite has an "inside" entry at this water stage which is convenient. It's a floppy wave to the left of the burbles-(off left-side of main, rt. tounge), and it works to run the middle of this wave (floating, no-mo), and then square-up to laterals feeding rt. w/ a downstream ferry angle to left. This should take you towards left eddy or at least to left side of the monster tail waves (which seem to be feeding main current into the king-eddy on right. If you do end-up in K.E., you can escape down rt. side of island at this level. Scout this!
As a rule (for dories at least), levels at 20K+: Less rock crunching. More flip potential. Brad's right. Go practice flip drills, (an then you won't flip on the river..).
Have a great trip Jim!
Hi Jim,
You may be downstream by this time, but I just returned from a trip last night, so sorry for the delay. We had 25k flows and it's over-all a "forgiving level" for hard-hulls. Left entry at Hance, Right at Crystal, and of course, left at Lava. -Just gotta' be looking ahead and paying attention to the boily-stuff in the gorges. The old "anticipation thing". Specter is getting fairly juicy and be ready to meet a large lateral off the wall there by squaring-up with your bow there. Plenty of room at House Rock and Bedrock to get further right where needed. Tail waves in House Rock are impressive right now. There's a further left entry, also at Granite to hopefully get you left of the wave-train at the bottom, tail waves...(as King Edward really wants you, there...).
-Bout all I can think of right now. When in doubt scout and have a fabulous trip.
Andy
I've beard Specter is pretty snappy at these flows.
Enjoy
Ballast your load well. Lots of heavy stuff low and centered, fluffy stuff high, holding it in place. Light dories flip a lot easier.
Hit the waves as straight as you can, and if you have passengers, really work on high-siding. A little weight on their toes instead of their butts, ready to forcefully put their weight into the waves and then return to center.
Do a few flip drills (before the trip in a warm lake is nice!) so that if you do roll it you'll have her up FAST before she hits anything.
Quick release ties for at least the first spare oars.
Right in House Rock, left to center in Hance, Center in Horn Creek, down the gut in Granite and be ready to pivot toward the wall 2/3 of the way through (there's a lateral coming off the wall that flips dories who fail to point at it), down the gut at Hermit YAHOO!, right a Crystal, left at Upset, left at Lava. The left entry at Lava is letter than most folks think--that's why they go off the ledge.
But mostly just have big fun.
Also, I recommend beer, whiskey, tequila, and gin and tonics. Best not all at once except below Lava.
Rock on,
Brad
what is a "partial deck" that you refer to in your profile?
Den in NH
We would be happy to point you in a good direction when you arrive in Jackson. The river will be low but runnable and fishing should be good. I will be off Steelhead fishing at that time but Dutch and Kevin will be happy to help you out. Give them a call.
Kevin 307 413 5098
Dutch 440 506 1442
Cheers,
AJ
I posted a photo of 3 of us running the hole at Joe Hutch. The flow takes you straight to it. Notice the slack water in the front of the image. There is enough time to move around this hole. At 2300 it was fairly deep. It was our plan to give it a shot for kicks.
My friend Jeremy (another dory builder) is at the oars. When we went in I had all 225 pounds of me on top of the front tube and got pushed back. For some reason some of the folks I boat with don't like to put much air in their boats. They always taco up on this stuff.
Since it's not a wood boat photo I will take it down after you take a look.
Larry
Our second boat had a 20 year old lumber yard frame. 2 X 6 and steel tube. The person who runs the boat also loves to run a very soft boat. Like 1 PSI, I'm not kidding. When they went into the bottom of the hole the boat tacoed and the 2 X 6 broke.
It's a nice hole so take a close look.
By the time you get there the bugs be gone. I got eaten.
Have a nice time.
L
Got off Deso today at 2:00. Flow is holding around 2400. While some runs were a bit boney, a dory would have been fine. Likely you would bump a few but not hard enough to be an issue.
Joe Hutch Rapid is ok at 2400 but, there is the possibility of difficulty. The entry is the same at 2400 as it was last Oct. The debris fan from last years flood has channeled the river to the left bank. The river accelerates quit a bit. The entry and first 60 feet or so have a wave train that starts at the tongue. The run is down the center.
Just below then entry waves you get about 50 feet of some fast flat water it leads right to a pour over and a hole. For fun we ran both our 16 foot rafts through that hole. We punched through just fine and took on some water. If you dig you should be able to slide left of this hole. Just below the hole the run is left along the ledges. Last year this section below where the hole is was filled with rocks and you had to get right or left. This springs 25000 flow has cleaned it out and it is now a much easier run.
I will try to get you a few images in the next day or so.
Larry
I will keep track of the water and give you an update after our run. I want to take a look at Joe Hutch and see if I can spot the rock where my friend Ryan landed 2 times now.
We have a small trip of 5 with 2 rafts so to make transport easier I have decided to leave my dory home for this one. Just got back from fishing the Green section A. The reservoir is almost full and the flow seem to be running 1500 - 2400 each day. Haven't seen that much water in Sept in a long time. The flow in Deso is showing 2300 - 2400. The Yampa must be down to nothing. But we had 23 last year and that was enough for everything but made Joe Hutch interesting.
I will give you an update when I get back for sure. You can see some images of Joe Hutch taken by my friend Dave Inskeep when they ran last spring at 24000.
http://www.inskeepimages.com/g/highwaterdeso
My boat went down that trip with a friend while I used his raft on a Grand trip.
L
No problem with one exception which is Joe Hutch. Aug of 2008 Joe Hutch canyon flooded and choked the river off. At high water it's now a about a class IV. The entry is not a problem but you get moving real quick. After the entry the river is filled with rock. Last fall there was a right and left channel to run but, the current is pushing you right down river center. I got through on the right side last year Okay. But one member of our trip didn't get the move and he put his new Rouge boat into the rocks. We had to fix a hole in the side before we could continue.
A few weeks ago he put a hole in the bottom of the same boat at the same spot. As soon as you get past the entry you need try to start digging and slow down. I have a Sept 12 launch and plan on taking my boat. It's wood, if I put a hole in we fix it and float on.
I would also say the fellow who went into the rocks is a very good boater, but he has many years of big water runs down Cataract where he is on the oars full speed. I don't know if he has made the adjustment to his dory yet. He also ran Joe Hutch last spring and 25000 CFS which is more his thing. He pounds bit water with no trouble.
If the flow holds 2300 I would go for it. Just make sure you stop and take a look at Joe Hutch. Wire Fence, Chandler, Three Fords and Coal Creek get boney but are not trouble.
Deso is very nice in September.
My boat is a 14 footer and his is a 17 foot rogue which is lighter them mine since it was built with much more honeycomb and foam. If don't think I would take a big heavy Briggs down at 2300.
L
Many of my friends have already down the Grand this season and a few more have trips planned for Sept and Dec.
Many of my boating friends are in their 20s and are feeling the squeeze of our economic events are holding back on spending and time.
I am helping a friend put a trip together for next March 28. We have people but are a bit jammed up on boats. I still need to find 2 more boats to cove the people we already have. Any interest?
If I come up with anyone who is looking for a fall trip I will refer them to you.
Larry
Let me know which "low water Rapidos" of concern you have and I'll give you my 2cts. worth.
Off the cuff:
Rt. to Left @ Horn Ck.
Left @ Crystal
Rt.@ Lava (in p.m.)
Rt. (not far Rt.) @ Dubbie.
Left (Always) @ Upset
Are you going to South Cove? (Pierce Ferry Rapid is now quite huge).
I'll give you more goary details if you wish, just let me know here.
Cheers, Andy
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