Middle Fork in late September?

Hey, a friend just pulled a permit for the Middle Fork in late September with a 9/29 launch date, so several of us are planning a trip.

Most of us have done a good bit of whitewater boating mostly in canoes and kayaks, though some rafting. And as you may have read elsewhere in the forum I have a drift boat (two years into my bottom replacement, but getting really close).

At least one of our group has run the Grand Canyon more than once in an open canoe, solo and tandem. And several of us have run the Middle Fork in either canoes and kayaks.

So our tentative plan is to run it this year, most likely, all in open canoes, with no raft support.

But none of us has ever run it this late in the year. So can you guys give me some idea of what to expect? Low water, pleasant days and chilly nights. And plan for much worse?

If we change our minds about the raft support, is it still possible to get a raft down the river that late in the season?

And how's the fishing in late September, early October?

Thanks for any advice.

Jack

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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on July 31, 2013 at 9:03pm

Jack, how are you doing?

idahowhitewater@yahoogroups.com

Here you go.

These folks are on top of it. I see multiple posts every week.

Rick

Permalink Reply by Rojo on August 1, 2013 at 1:54pm

The Forest Service website has a lot of valuable information: http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/scnf/recreation/wateractivities/?cid=...

Also, Leidecker posts some news in his book's facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/mf.salmon.guidebook

It really will be an awesome trip. I would urge you again to consider flying some gear as it will make for lighter boats up top where there's no water. And as Dan-O encouraged, definitely bring the fly rods.

Rojo

Permalink Reply by Jack Rose on July 31, 2013 at 9:56pm

Rick, thanks, I'll check them out. 

Meanwhile, I'm doing fine, though I haven't touched my drift boat bottom in a couple of months.  So close to being done, yet, not.  Too many distractions or maybe it's fear of fiberglass that's keeping me away.

Looking forward to this Middle Fork trip though. The more I read, the more I'm loving the sound of it.

Jack

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on July 31, 2013 at 11:24pm

Jack, having done the Lower Main 45 times, the Main Salmon 6 times and the Middle Fork only once it is still the most remarkable river experience I have enjoyed and still remember. Show me a picture of a rapid on the Middle Fork and memories return and I can often remember the name. There should be some good fishing then too.

The West is starting to burn, several fires along the Middle Fork and the Main Salmon right now. A tree that dropped into the river near Veil Falls entrapped a kayaker and she didn't survive. The Yahoo group I mentioned had many first hand reports and pictures of the tree and its location. Better than the news companies.

I have been working on my drift boat and have almost completed all the details I wave wanted to achieve up to this point. I have used Daly's Sea Fin Teak Oil on the gunwales, chine strip, and  bow cap. I leveled the gunwales prior to using an 1/8" roundover bit to break the edges. My Dremel tool helped on the tight spots with a small sanding drum.

I am almost finished building a rear seat for the occasional passenger. I have a guide trip to do on the Kootenai River next Tuesday and may have to carry two folks. I have also become active with the Project Healing Waters Fly Fishing group here in Washington State. We will be conducting a two fly event for vets on the Yakima River in Central Washington State a week before you start on the MF.

I have been doing epoxy and fiberglass work on a friends boat. We have added 6 ounce glass to the outsides of the boat 18 oz traxial to the bottom and both to the interior of the floor. The Doug Fir had checked badly in some places but won't any more. Graphite and epoxy covers the heavy glass on the bottom. Steve is a fine cabinet maker and will be making new boat furniture.

Pink Salmon trip in a couple of weeks, hoping there will be enough for even me to catch a few. Hope you enjoy your trip, send and post some photos so we can all see what a special place the Middle Fork is. Put in at Boundary or flying in? You lucky dog, have a great time.

Rick N

Permalink Reply by Herb Jacobsen on August 1, 2013 at 9:12am

We used to dead head from Boundary Creek to either Indian Creek or Boundary Creek in Spetember.  It was the only eay to get our drift boats down the river.  We carried light loads and usually stopped for the evening somewhere around Sheepeater.  It was bony for sure.  That UHMW bottom came in handy a lot of times.  Once we got below Pistol Creek, it got a bit easier.

The outfitter I used to work for, Solitude River Trips, does September trips but they fly their rafts into Boundary Creek.  If I were you, I would fly my stuff to Boundary or Indian, food stuffs, etc.  Then dead head down from up above.  If you leave early in the morning you can make it down to one of the two places mentioned.

The fishing will be great.  Parachute Adams, Grass Hoppers, Yellow Humpies were always good patterns.

Hope you have a great time.  I wish I could go back over there but my days are over.  Best wishes.

Herb Jacobsen

Permalink Reply by Jack Rose on August 1, 2013 at 9:51pm

Hey guys, thanks for the references.  All good.  I'll enjoy checking them out over the next two months.

And Rojo, I'm definitely bringing my fly rod, so, Herb, thanks for the fly recommendations.

Also, thanks for the put-in/load advice.  This is a self-support, hard boat trip.  All canoes, 4 solos and a tandem.  We're treating this like a backpacking trip, no chairs, no dutch ovens and no beer (no worries, there will be alcohol, just more efficient media).

Half of us have run the Middle Fork at least once, one of us a half-dozen times.  And all of these trips have been in August, launching from Boundary Creek, so we're familiar with sub 2' levels, but I've seen one projection putting the river in the 1.5'-1.6' range by the time we put on in late September.

I can't imagine the Middle Fork ever getting so low that you couldn't get a canoe down it, but that is sounding awfully scrapy.  Maybe the bigger concern is that the lower it goes the more technical it becomes.

We get a lot of that back East, but I'm wondering if any of you have any thoughts on the Middle Fork in the 1 1/2 foot range.

Thanks again,

Jack

Permalink Reply by Collin Ponzo on August 2, 2013 at 7:33am

Jack,

You'll be fine on there in late Sept. There will be people out there too, this is due to the permit process changing. I'll leave that subject be.

There will be plenty of water- the MF levels off at 1.4-1.7 that time of year. The days will be cool/hot nights cold.

All canoes will be fun. Be careful of the strainers, there is 1 right now, the one that lead to the death last week has been pulled. The fire at Papose will still be going in Late Sept too. You've got the right idea when it comes to being light. I'll be the only one on here who will tell you that you can get a fully loaded 18' raft down that ditch at that level, trust me I've been paid to do it. It's really not that hard, you just need to know where to go. So don't let people scare you off with the low water talk. 

Bring a shotgun too, you'll thank me later. The Chukar will be EPIC this season!! With that light winter they will be everywhere- from Pine Flat down. 

I've run that thing a lot under 2' and it's all doable. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's just a boney run. Pinball is a pain in the ass, but the top of Hell's Half is what sucks. Pinball- stay center work left of center and finish right or left of the big rock on river left. 

Hells Half, the entrance sucks, you'll enter center/right of center and head right, then cut back center and you'll hit the current. 

The Chutes are a pain too- but you'll be fine, honestly. If you've boated in low water before you'll be fine, I would bring a raft and I'd volunteer if I wasn't stuck at this desk. 

Have fun and please reach out if you have any other questions, I've worked out there quite a bit and I'm happy to help.

Permalink Reply by David Rogers on August 6, 2013 at 8:43pm

I've done it twice in late Sept.  Both times were around 1.5'.  The first time we flew into Indian Creek with two kayaks and a support raft (3 people).  The second time we launched from Boundary with three rafts (6 people) and flew an Islander full of dry boxes and coolers into Indian Creek for a supply drop.  Both times we ran the Middle and the Main combined and were out for about 16 days.  

Both trips were very fun and very doable for a group with good boat handling skills.  The water is skinny, especially above Indian Creek.  My favorite part of the run is from Boundary to Indian, so I will never again fly in.  The fishing is great.  The days are short and it gets cold at night.  Don't plan on making a lot of miles on any given day.  You should have no problems with the canoes if you are good whitewater canoeists who can paddle a loaded boat.  The rapids are not that hard, but you are in a remote area so there are consequences.

I have done the MF from 8.5' down to 1.5' and love it at any level.  I spent my 40th birthday on a fall Middle/Main trip and am contimplating putting a trip together this fall for my 50th. 

Have fun out there!

Permalink Reply by Jack Rose on August 6, 2013 at 9:13pm

Collin, David, thanks for all the low water info.  You've given us a good idea of what to expect.

Some of our party have been doing this for much longer than others, and three of us have run the Middle Fork in canoes below 2', and one has run the Grand Canyon in an open canoe a couple of times.

So we're not totally new to this, but still the 1.9' that we've experienced in August is a good bit different from 1.5' that we'll see in October, water level and air temperature.

And I confess that on our last trip which included three support rafts with the river below 2', we ended up setting up more than one Z-drag, once, even, below Indian Creek as I remember.

We've been warming up on Class III-IV eastern rivers with at least one dry-run with gear planned in a couple of weeks.

One thing that we hadn't planned on, though, is shotgunning for chukar. That sounds like a blast.

Jack

Permalink Reply by David Rogers on August 7, 2013 at 7:42am

Sounds like a Blast....  Get it?

Sounds like you guys have the canoeing chops.  I grew up boating and started in OC2.  I have seen people who have done a little canoeing and thought they were "pretty good canoeists" get into trouble on white water with loaded boats.  I have a nice OC1 all rigged up with a pedistal and straps that I have planned on using for late season skinny water trips.  I never paddle that boat anymore.

Dave

Permalink Reply by Jack Rose on February 9, 2015 at 12:28am

Hey guys, I was looking through old threads, and thought I'd give some closure to this one.  And, no, it doesn't have a thing to do with wooden boats, but since I started the discussion, here, I figured I ought to finish it.

 

So on Sept. 29, 2013, after having camped in the rain for a couple of days, we put in at Boundary Creek on the Middle Fork around noon, somewhat wet, with overloaded canoes (first bad decision, we should've opted for a backpacking mentality over a rafting approach), with the temps in the mid-40s and dropping, and the water flow around 650 cfs and rising (about 1.8'). 

 

We had three open solo canoes, one tandem canoe and a kayak, but no raft support. Our camping and whitewater boating skills are pretty good with lots of experience on the technical eastern rivers, plus three of us had already run the Middle Fork in open canoes at least once.

 

However, our judgment may have been lacking.  But then, who expects 5 days of rain in the Rockies in late September?  Snow or sleet, sure.  But rain?  Turns out, everyone should.

 

Anyway, this time of year, the check-in station at Boundary Creek is closed, and you don't get your assigned campsites until you get to Indian Creek (mile 26).  So with a late start, our first-day's goal was to get below Velvet Falls (mile 5) before setting up camp.

 

But as we were getting dressed to launch, we learned that one of our party had neglected to bring their dry-suit.  Whether they forgot, chose not to, or were told they wouldn't need it is still being debated, but either way, it was back home in Tennessee.

 

As you might guess from my tone, things didn't go well.  The flow had doubled (2.2') by the time we got to Sulphur Slide and Ramshorn (both Class III rapids), and everyone but our kayaker had taken more than one unplanned swim, and we still had Velvet (Class IV) to go.  We were getting cold, maybe a couple of us were pre-hypothermic, and night was coming on.

 

Fortunately, we made it through Velvet upright, not exactly a clean run all around, but at least no swims.  So we pulled over at Boy Scout Camp, about a half-mile on down, river right, cold and wet with it still drizzling and the temps dropping. 

 

Of course, we immediately set up our tents, drank plenty of warm liquids, and crawled into our sleeping bags for a cold and clammy night.

 

But the next morning, we awoke to clear skies.  It was still cold, though, so with no assigned campsites, we opted to stay put, and dry out, with thoughts of making up some time on the river with the increased flow.

 

The river was now running around 4000 cfs (more typical for early June), about six times the flow rate when had we put in the day before.  We had been marking the water level, and only guessing at the flow, but these are real numbers from the USFS gauge site.

 

So we spent the day drying our stuff, and discussing our options (portage our way back to Boundary Creek, drop on down and fly out of Indian Creek, or hope for better weather and finish the trip).  We warmed up with a nice campfire (fire pan, yes) and went to bed with a positive attitude.

 

But the next morning, we woke up to a steady sleet and dropping temperatures; however, the river had also dropped down below 3000, and we were dry, so we put in with plans of finishing the trip, or at least playing it by ear down to Indian Creek.

 

By the time we hit Trail Flats (a mile-and-a-half down with hot springs and a campsite on the trail side of the river), it was clear that some of us were just too cold, too soon.  So realizing we were approaching the point of no return, we took a Survivor-like vote, and decided to portage back to Boundary Creek.

 

Trust me, the next four days were no fun. Schlepping five boats and several hundred pounds of gear, with no backpacks or portage yokes, seven miles back up river and over dell, through alternating snow and sleet and sun, took about twice as long as we expected.  That also included a run to retrieve our van which had already been shuttled to Cache Bar.

 

Meanwhile, we learned from a couple of renegade raft parties (surely not!) that the US government had shut down, so we were glad we hadn't headed for the USFS station at Indian Creek (though we learned later, that they had stayed put).

 

So, yeah, it was a mess.  And no, we didn't even almost finish the trip.  And yes, we were embarrassed to return home with such a tale.  But we're still convinced that we were just one more bad decision from becoming a Jon Krakauer book.  And somehow, we're all still friends.

 

Matter of fact, one of us pulled another permit for the Middle Fork this past September, exactly one month earlier in the year, and with a slight change in the line-up, five solo open canoes this time, we completed an absolutely wonderful run of the river.

 

We packed much lighter, and the river stayed around 2' for the entire week.  We had one day up top in dry gear (hey, we were just a bit skittish), but the rest of the trip was in shorts and a spray top.  The day-time temps were in the mid-60s, and the evenings bottomed out in the low 40s. 

 

There was only one slight drizzle at Sheep Creek, but three of our group hiked down to the Flying B, drank a couple of beers or three, and made breakfast reservations for the next morning.

 

I don't think we missed a single hot spring or pictograph or historical site, and we still had time for a few side hikes.  There were even a couple of days where we had the river completely to ourselves, otherwise, we never saw more than two parties a day. Plus, because of the light traffic and our small group, we were allowed two nights in the canyon.

 

And unplanned swims?  Only three total, and those came in the big water in the canyon.  Not too bad for five old guys in open canoes over seven days.  Plus, all five of us made clean runs through Cramer Creek where, I swear, one of us hit that middle tongue, and launched two feet out of the water, canoe and all.

 

So the moral of this long epistle?  If you ever have the opportunity to run the Middle Fork, absolutely do it.  But dress accordingly.

 

If you're interested, here're some pictures: Middle Fork, Dry Run, 2013: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jackrose/sets/72157642301978013/

 

Middle Fork, Clean Run, 2014

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jackrose/sets/72157648606892787/

 

And there you have it, how’s that for thread closure?

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on February 9, 2015 at 7:28am

Jack, good lessons and good stories. It only takes a short distance to realize that you have too much stuff on the Middle Fork. . After too many Lower Main trips where if you can get in or on the raft you figure you can do the same thing anywhere. Not true on the Middle Fork. At 6.6 feet, I don't remember the CFS, you are as busy as a ball bearing in a pinball machine.

You'll have to build one of those circular carriages to turn your boat over, either that or get you Middle Fork buddies over to help you.

Rick N

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