14' Greg Tatum Rebuild

I recently purchased a @15 year old Greg Tatum wood drift boat, from "friends," in need of "a little repair."  Perusing the forums has answered many questions that have arisen as a result of my rebuild attempts, but I will appreciate a little direction with the following:

  1. Screwed to the bottom is a black plastic (HDPE?) "skid plate." About 90% of the bottom is covered with one piece, but bow and stern were covered with what appears to be leftovers from the original sheet.  Can this stuff be plastic "welded" or is there a glue I can utilize to make all the pieces into one? The "seams" where the pieces come together have apparently been snagged on rocks, precipitating repairs, that I'd like to try and avoid any future.
  2. The drain originally had a plastic tube or insert into which the plug was inserted. I can find metal or threaded plastic, but cannot so far locate a tube that might be glued/epoxied in place like the one previously installed.  Any hints?
  3. The oarlocks are wooden blocks with a white plastic/nylon? insert which I can't seem to locate anything similar to. Suggestions?
  4. The chine (I believe it called) around the outside bottom of the boat was badly damaged, more than a few of said dings put there by yours truly.  In many places, the chine/plywood side parted company with the glue letting go of the plywood, with little resulting damage to the plywood.  In three or four places, fortune failed me and the glue peeled the hide off the plywood.  I'm going to attempt attaching a photo indicative of the damage and again appreciate any advice as to how to undertake repairs of these areas.

I live in the Wind River Canyon in Wyoming (about 100 yards from the Wind River) and will gladly trade rebuild knowledge for "free advice" on floating/fishing the waters of my home State.

Thanks for the opportunity to participate in your forum.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on August 16, 2013 at 9:10am

Hello again Wyo Roger; a little paint and a buffer and all will be well. Well not quite that easy. when a boat lives in the much more moderate climate of western Oregon where the temperature swings aren't so great the UHMW had a longer life. However in the wild weather of Wyoming the material shrinks and stretches pulling the screws out. The UHMW is also very slick, so slick that glues don't stick to it. There is a process that adheres a substance I believe it is a fabric that allows gluing. I haven't read of anyone on the forum using it on their boat so I can't comment on how well it works or the cost. A question that I still have is how this fabric might affect or control the expansion and contraction of the material.

So to answer your question #1. no there isn't glue to repair the UHMW. There are however several options to repair the bottom of your boat. I just assisted a new friend of mine repair his boat that had suffered similar damage as yours. He chose to: a. remove all screws and patch any holes with System # Silvertip epoxy and wood flour. He then sanded the surface with 60 grit and a random orbital sander in preparation for a coat of Silvertip which I applied under a layer of 18 ounce triaxial fiberglass which was laminated to the boat with more Silvertip. After that cured I applied another layer of epoxy mixed with System 3 Silica Thickner and then Steve had the enormous pleasure of sanding it just enough to reduce high spots but not the fibers.

When you mix the silica with the epoxy a thixotropic agent is formed. What the heck does that mean to you? It means that you just made a non-sagging thick paste. So you can fill in the weave of the glass, fair or smooth areas with out the epoxy running and patch small areas like where your chine cap was easily.

After things had cured I added a a layer of epoxy mixed with West System graphite powder and the silica. I will add another layer or two of this mixture when Steve flips the boat back upside down.

I and many others have chosen to either build our boats from new or repair them with this "system". So far so good on my boat, it makes a rather slick surface that seems to slide well. 

Another popular system to repair the bottom is to repair the bottom with epoxy, wood flour, wood pegs etc.  A sacrificial "shoe" of plywood is then screwed to the bottom. A variety of treatment are done to this plywood to suit individual choices, linseed oil, epoxy, boat soup etc. One quarter inch plywood is a common choice. Dave Z is an advocate and user of this system. Do a search and see about the great success he has had with this system. 

These are the two most popular choices that folks post about, I'm sure that there are others that also work quite well too.

2. I have no idea about the tube you need. The nice thing about plywood and epoxy is it is easy to cut out unwanted or damaged wood, change things, put in a new plug or what ever. Jason Knight and Guy Fredrickson recently documented the installation of of a brass fitting that a brass plug screws into. I'm going to have to review what they did and do the same to my boat as a single drain hole at the stern of the boat doesn't do the job for me.

3. Talk to or send Randy Dersham here on WBP a message, he has these inserts. He purchased Greg Tatman's business a few years ago.  There are also numerous other solutions that a search will turn up. It's a popular question.

4. The chine cap is relatively easy to remake and replace. When steve tried to find air dried White Oak here in Spokane he found none available so he chose Ash. It may not have the ultimate resistance to rot of some woods but it was available, it bends well and was affordable. Chine caps are sacrificial because they take a great deal of abuse. Remember that thixotropic mixture of epoxy, this is a great place to apply some of that to patch the damage that occured there. I am willing to bet that the builder of the boat used 3M 5200 a very powerful adhesive that is strong enough to remove the wood it adheres to before it fails. When you replace your chine cap or put any other holes into the plywood on your boat it is very important to apply a non-drying, ever flexible bedding compound to each screw. Water intrusion into the interior of the plywood will cause the dreaded rot, often where you can't see it. Polysulfide based compounds do this job well. Boat Life Boat Caulk is popular, 3M 101 used to be but it isn't made anymore. Dolfinite is another material that is popular in boat building circles. "A little dab will do yah."

A question you haven't brought up is what should I do to the aged plywood on my boat to prevent "checking" the inevitable uneven drying and aging of the rotary cut plywood. The only way that I am aware to prevent this issue is to laminate a layer of fiberglass over the wood. That's what I did to Steve's boat. I added a couple of additional layers of epoxy and fumed silica and he got to sand it fair in preparation of applying paint. The interior of his floor had suffered some minor rot so a little more epoxy under some more fiberglass cloth added some more life to his boat.

My answers may not be the same answers that others will provide this is one of the great things about Wooden Boat People, the opportunity to gather knowledge from a wide variety of great folks with a great deal of experiences, training and know how. So take the path to repair your boat that makes the most sense for you. You've seen my opinion, let's see what other contribute.

I would love to fish in your corner of the world. I have fished up by Cody and had a great time. I would be happy to share my area rivers with you if you come north. The annual Wooden Boat Festival is a great gathering of folks and boats you need to see. You also have a great resource in Wyoming with AJ, Dutch and Kevin. AJ recently noted that he has made most of the mistakes that can be made so can help you avoid making them yourself. I have a whole list of "do-overs" that I have either already had to do or plan to do on the next build.

Good luck and welcome aboard!

Rick Newman

Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on August 16, 2013 at 2:55pm
WyoRoger,

You live in a special place. Love that little piece of Wyoming. Have wade fished the canyon and float below the Wedding of the Waters but never floated the canyon.

That means you have a deal. I'll be happy to talk you through the repairs for a float down that wonderful piece of water. Give me a call.

AJ 307 732 BOAT(2628)
Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on August 16, 2013 at 5:14pm

Roger, I forgot to address why I chose System 3 Silvertip. I first started with System 3 ordered from fiberglasssupply.com and liked how it worked, when I ordered more I changed to the Silvertip because I liked the idea of none to little amine blush and the fact that it was a 2 to 1 by volume system. I have since moved to a 1 to .43 by weight ratio cause I find I have better accuracy and am able to make corrections if I add to much of one of the parts when I use my gram scale and clear plastic drink cups. I rarely make many big batches but other large free or inexpensive containers can be retrieved from our recycling bin.

I would love to be on the same trip as AJ!

Rick N

Permalink Reply by WyoRoger on August 21, 2013 at 11:55am

I first wish to dispel an apparent, inadvertent mistruth I've here created.  I'm a fisherman, so it's accepted fact I'm not always bound to the truth, but I, like the rest here represented, have never floated the canyon.  To do so requires that you go with the folks at Wind River Canyon, the sole permit holders for recreational or commercial trips on the river. No permit, no float. I have, however, shore fished the canyon on numerous occasions and float the Wedding of the Waters north as often as I can.

Now more questions, if you please:

  1. I've once again attached a picture of, because I lack the nautical terminology, the "bumper" piece of plywood screwed to the boat's sides. It appears the boat was painted, then the "bumper" attached (by screws only, no adhesive) and then painted as well.  Because the screws are deeply countersunk, maybe tightened more than once through the years, I fear if I pull this piece off I'll not be able to reinstall this original piece. Shall I pull it off and replace it (long ways to marine plywood from Wyoming,) attempt to caulk around the outer edge prior to, or simply throw a coat of paint on the whole works and look the other way?
  2. When reattaching the UHMW, does one put a spot of caulk in the pre-drilled hole through my newly refinished epoxy bottom or simply reinstall the screws?  Any suggestions on a caulk if it's the right way to go?
  3. Is there a manufactured "plastic wood" like product for filling holes or should one bite the bullet, bow his neck and mix the sawdust and epoxy?
  4. And to Rick and his instructions for repairing the "checking" of old plywood, are you going with fiberglass cloth and epoxy or just epoxy? And is this the answer to my "bumper" gap as well?
  5. I thought the name of this barge a "Tatum." Is it Tatman?
  6. Is there a PM channel available, or are postings to be made only through the forums?

Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on August 21, 2013 at 2:58pm

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the phone call today.  Nice to get acquainted.

1  the "bumper" is known as a rubrail and was added in the old days when most trailers were made from junk parts and had no fenders so might rub a hole in the boat if not for the rub rail.  It does offer some protection from rock dings but is prabably still there as an accent piece now days.

To do a glass over of the side panels it should be removed and then reattached(or not) after the glass work.  You do want to use at least a light 4-6 oz cloth on the panel.  Straight epoxy with out the cloth adds no strength or protection against the check that will always occur with even the very best marine fir ply wood panels.

 

2 Once you get that UHMW off the bottom leave it off.  In Wyoming where annual temperature swings can range from -40 to 100 degrees  the UHMW will expand and contract so much that it will pull the screws out and leave you with exactly what you have right now.  A fiberglass/epoxy coted bottom is the best in this country.  This type of bottom has served me well for well over thirty years of hard use on my boats. 

 

3  Use thickened epoxy for your fairing needs.  Micro baloons work well for fairing as the sand easily,  Silica or chopped fabric work well for a strong bond but don't sand easily,  sawdust comes somewhere in between and works ok for either purpose.  Talk to the pro at the tech support for the various epoxy manufactureres for the real skinny on how these epoxy addatives work.

 

4  see answer # 1

 

Have fun with your project.

 

AJ

Permalink Reply by Brian King on August 22, 2013 at 9:34pm

To answer your question about the oar lock block bushings go to Willie's Boats and look, they are $9.00 per pair for 5\8" oar locks.

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