Anybody know this boat design and what should I do for the repairs?

Just purchased this boat, came from Oregon Coast near Lincoln City. Anybody know who might have made this 1984 era boat?

Also you will see some rotted wood problems in the interior. The paint had bubbled and allowed water to enter at least one ply deep. This has rotted but the wood underneath seems to be solid, It hasn't dried out yet so I'm not certain of all the conditions. Do I use a chemical treatment to restore the wood and patch with a thin veneer and some epoxy and wood flour? Do I cut out the entire section and replace it from chine log up to extent of damage? Also the rubbing strake has been fiberglassed and is now bubling. Do I remove the entire strake and start over?

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Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on February 20, 2009 at 4:40pm
Rick,

The first thing you need to do is to determine the extent of the damage, That means getting the paint off so you can get a good look at the wood. Paint can hide bad things. Use a good paint stripper to expose the obvious places first. I would start at the chine log and strip up the side panel and onto the bottom panel as far as you need to expose damaged wood. It can be patched. If the rub strake is showing signs of rot then you should strip away the paint there as well. Panels that have been fiberglassed are easily stripped with a heat gun and scrapper. Lastly I would remove the chine caps. This gives you a good look at the chine joint, which is where the source of the problem could be. A 25 year old boat deserves a properly bedded new chine cap anyway. You now have exposed the most important part of the boat and can make a knowledgeable decision on how to proceed .

Hard to put a finger on a builder but the crew that gathers at Randy's boat show could have some ideas.
Good luck and post some images of the exposed parts and we can continue to make suggestions. Looks like a fun project.
Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on February 20, 2009 at 9:14pm
AJ thanks for the response. I will take your advice and remove the paint to determine the extent of the damage. Can you tell me more about System Three Rot Fix mentioned in the older blog about the bottom replacement.

The bottom has alledgely been replaced about ten years ago. Unfortunately I think that some household paint was used to paint it. Fortunately the boat has been covered and there is very little damage and because it appears to be house paint it may be somewhat easier to remove. I have removed old paint and scraped and sanded enough to know that it isn't much fun. I know, just keep thinking about all the fishing I can do!
Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on February 22, 2009 at 9:31am
System Three Rot Fix is a penetrating liquid two part epoxy that will soak into and bind the fibers of a rot area sealing it from air and preventing further rot. Click Here to go to that website.

Don't overuse rot fix in place of replacing rotten boards when you should. We use rot fix only after we have exposed the rotted area to air by stripping away any old epoxy or paint, such as screw holes on the boat bottom. Let it dry out completely. Pick away the loose rotten wood and get down to fibers that might still contain a small amount of rot but are attached and cannot be easily picked out of the affected area. Then pour the rot fix into the area and let it completely soak in. The goal is to get the wood to wick in the rot fix similar to they way it will soak up water or oil finish. Keep applying rot fix in small amounts until it will no longer wick up any epoxy. Let it dry. Fair out the area with a wood fill Fillet such as EZ-Fillet or a wood flour and epoxy mix.

I do not recommend using this approach for structural areas were the wood can be replaced. However, there are some fixes were you are going to leave a board or plywood area and soaking the end grain with rot fix before finishing the repair will strengthen suspect areas.

Best of luck. Once you get started on your project and have the chines off and exposed the wood so you can make an evaluation, please post some photos here. I'm sure you will bet good advice to get you back on the water in a great boat.
Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on February 22, 2009 at 9:45am
Thank you Randy, I know that replacement of the wood is the very best long term repair. However I am torn between the desire to do a "band-aid repair" until I have a place and the time to do the complete repair. Hence my questions about the Rot Fix. If I remove a X inch piece from the entire side of the boat do I try to run a scarf joint the entire length of the hull or do a lap joint such as was shown on one of the first forums? I then presume that I would replace the chine with white oak. I have seen an additional strip of UHMW added as a protection device to the chine. Any thoughts?

PS I didn't plan on adding my boat repair pics to the total slide show, so if you want to remove them go ahead.
Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on February 22, 2009 at 12:19pm
Randy and AJ, your input is spot on. I haven't stripped paint yet but did attack the area with a 3way paint scraper. See the attached pictures. Apparently this area has been patched before and staples, sheetrock screws, and some form of a rubberized adhesive used. There are also remnants of silicone adhesive too. The upper un-patched portion of the hull is mahogany of some sort. The strake and patch are fir plywood. So the temporary repair idea of Fix Rot is out.

Now the question is do I replace the entire side or just patch an area beyond any discernable rot? If so what is the correct joint to use between the patch and existing wood? The chine is mahogany.

I really appreciate this forum and the fact that you take the time to advise me and the others. Ever since my cousin had a wooden drift boat in Ellensburg in the early seventies.
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Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on February 22, 2009 at 12:59pm
Oh boy, now we're having fun. This is not a band-aid fix at this point but probably doable. Your photos are nice and sharp and show lots of old paint on the frame behind the rotted side panel. This paint needs to go so you can get a good look at the wood. We also need to get a good look at this hole from the inside with floorboards removed. The chine cap needs to come off too. This will work much easier with the boat upsidedown. Take out all the internal pieces, seats and floorboards and get a friend to help you flip it over. Once the chine cap has been removed a photo of the hole up close and the area at least one frame to either side will be needed.

Unless you can removed the fasteners holding the chine cap you will probably need a sawsall and a wedge. Use the sawsall to cut the fasteners and work a wedge behind the cap to keep it open for the blade. Remove the entire chine cap. A new cap will be needed. This looks like it could be more than you bargained for when you bought the boat but is doable if you are up to it.

Doug, Dave, Randy and all please jump in and give your thoughts. I don't pretend to be the expert here but my team really enjoys these types of challenges. Sometimes building a new boat is much easier but keeping an oldie alive is fun.
Permalink Reply by sanderson on February 22, 2009 at 1:52pm
A.J. you're as good an expert as any of us. I agree. I don't think there is any way to decide what to do next until the chine cap is off.

Before you turn the boat over it would be worth testing to see if the inside chine log has rot. It's easy to do; take an awl or small flat screw driver and push on the inside chine log. If it is solid wood you should be able to push hard against it. If it is rotten then a little body weight against the screw driver will easily push it into the chine log. It is very common for the chine log to be good at the stem and transom ends and then rot out in the center of the boat. Let's pray its solid.
Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on February 22, 2009 at 3:15pm
Thanks again for the reply. All of the chine log that I have tested is solid. So far so good. I have the tools and the desire, now comes the stick-to-it portion. I am 99.5% done on a kitchen remodel from the studs out that has taken three years and two months. So this repair shouldn't take as long. Before that I completely finished my basement, only a stud wall existed before that venture. I priced marine plywood here in Spokane so I am considering just replacing this entire side as the expense isn't that high versus the labor required to refinish the existing wood.

Now my issues are what material should I replace the chine and gunwale with and making an accurate pattern of the side. I have access to 1/4 sawn white oak. I made my own trim for my kitchen on a Harbor Freight router table so I feel good about maching the wood to size.

I haven't yet scarfed a joint so that will be interesting. Thanks again for the help!

Rick Newman
Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on February 22, 2009 at 5:26pm
Sounds like you have the skills and the commitment. We can coach you through the process. This will be a fun project to follow and we can all learn from the project. Replacing the entire side my not be necessary but we won't know till the paint comes off. White oak will be fine for new chine caps. We look forward to the next set of photos.
Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on February 28, 2009 at 6:05pm
Well I got the time to open up the damage on the boat. The chine cap is made from mahogany. The side of the boat where the hole now existed was a flush-fit patch, fitted from one end to the other. A combination of stainless steel screws, copper tacks, Sheet Rock Screws! and staples held it on. Also a heavy thick patch material was placed on the inside. Frame members have rot, every one on the side is rotten on the ends. I have a feeling that there must have been a different chine log originally installed as small spacers were installed in the extra spaces noted between the end of the ribs and the chine log. The seller said that his wife's grandfather had previously replaced the floor. My supposition is the floor and the chine log were both replaced but they didn't have materials of the same dimension to replace the original, hence the spacers. The chine log seems to be in much better shape than the other wood so maybe I won't replace it. With the amount of damage that i have found i don't think that I want to patch the boat and still have to refinish the outside and inside of the boat to get it to match. I can buy marine douglas fir plywood locally so I believe I will have to learn to scarf. Since i have the original ribs and such I will have to replicate them also. Don't think that I will be boating any time soon.

Thanks again for all the help. I just got Roger Fletcher's book and am excited to read it.

Rick Newman
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Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on March 2, 2009 at 4:42pm
Rick,

Those are some nasty looking frame joints. How deep does the rot go? We just finished a restoration where we had one rotted joint. We scarf cut the bad piece out, replaced it and sistered a piece of 1/4" ply wood the entire length of the bottom frame to reinforce the repair. I think it will hold just fine but is was just one problem spot. Depending upon the severity of the rot problem you might get away with a similar repair. If you need to replace the whole side panel and most of those frame it can still be done but makes for a significant commitment. We rebuilt a boat last winter that was wrecked on the river. It was very interesting and came out great. Here's a few photos of that project.

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on March 2, 2009 at 5:28pm
AJ thanks for the response. I haven't probed the wood very far but as you could see the immediate area is wet and rotten. The cost of some clear grain fir and the time required to replicate the pieces seems like it would be less than the time and expense and potential problems if i try something like rot fix. Also after looking at the drawings in Rogers' book confirms that someone replaced the chine log with something about half an inch less tall than what was original. So even though the chine log wood loks good, I don't trust the poor construction technique and corner cutting. None of the boat is wrapped with fiberglass, just paint. I don't even know what kind of paint, probably what ever was available or left over.

So my next steps are, finish removing gunwales from both sides, remove seats, fly deck, frame members that are bad, remainder of outer chine cap, heat up the bottom and remove the hopefully stainless steel screws so I can remove the floor members that are bad. Next purchase plywood and fir, epoxy glass, etc. Then make pattern from side that I removed prior to cutting plywood and scarfing it together.

I should also make my replacement chine log and cut strips for the gunwales.

I will probably beg my inlaws to allow me to rebuild the boat about 40 miles south in a heated shop with table saw, band saw, sander, drill press, MIG and TIG welders etc.

I have read almost every discussion on the Montana Riverboat Forum and looked at every video concerning scarfing, etc. My interpretation or distillation of this info suggest that I should epxy and fiberglass the outside of the boat's side prior to installing it. Further lessons suggest that the homemade oil finish should be used on the inside. 3M 4200 should be used to bed the chine log as well as the frame members. Should I coat/saturate the surfaces of ribs, frames, chine logs, etc that will be fastened to the bottom, sides, etc? I know that I shouldn't put any oil on the wood that will be epoxied.

At this time I am considering an Interlux paint job.

The bottom line is should I take the other side of the boat apart to determine if I have any unobserved rot there? At this time the wood is all solid and doesn't succumb to a screwdriver punch test. Perhaps 1/2 the boat will be new for a year so I can get on the river sooner?

Thanks again for all the help from everyone that has responded. Thanks also for the pictures. How long did it take in your shop to repair the damaged boat? Did you find any construction surprises when you destructed the boat?

Rick Newman

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