New to the wood boat world

Sorry for posting, I know there are plenty of posts on us newbies. I'm a long time river guide in Idaho on the Middle Fork of the Salmon, I've run wooden boats in the past ( Not on the MF) and finally decided to start my own project just the other day. I went with a restore project as I don't have a ton of experience with woodwork. Just mainly looking for a craft that's in good shape in structure and sound. 

I think I found it, it's an old Don Hill Pram, 10' built by Don. Just found out she'll be turning 30 in July. I picked it up for $300 so I felt that was a fair price. I've attached pictures of the boat and what I've got it down to now. I just took out the floors and seats as I'd like to put in 2 benches and a railing on the sides for fishing gear, similar to what Dave Z's Pram benches look like. I also HAD to remove that seat in front on the metal post, that was driving me nuts.

I have some questions. I've removed the floors and seats, I'd like to know if I can even make 2 benches fit in this little guy, I'd think the front bench should have hinges on it so you can set it up and have extra space to stand and fish. What's your thoughts? Where would I anchor the benches? I would think to frame the whole thing and anchor it as a unit. 

But I'm getting ahead of myself. First thing I need help with is the glass on the bottom. It's in rough shape and needs to be replaced. What is the best way to do that? I've heard a heat gun works? Would love some thought on that. It looks like it was a quick job when it was done last. They just went over the chine, a little sloppy. (which is where it's separating) I have seen your plans for that Randy, and I like the idea of going under the chine. How far up the sides should I go? There is one place I can see that was repaired from it hit of some sort, seems sound to me, should I glass over that to make it more sound?

Also the front of the boat, the wood there is very thin to me, I can make it flex by pushing on it. No rot or anything like that. Should I cut another piece just like it and epoxy it to the orginal and glass them both? Or should I just glass it as is and see it that makes it stronger?

I don't want to get in over my head, please let me know what I should avoid. I'm thinking I'm going to sell this one to be able to afford a McKenzie 14-16' so I can take it on the whitewater. I'd like keep it looking with a nice wood finish, I know I don't need to tell you guys how great a wood boat looks in a nice finish. 

Thanks for any and all advise, I really appreciate it.  

 

Collin

I've also attached a picture of the pealing of the glass on the side.

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Permalink Reply by Collin Ponzo on May 15, 2012 at 8:11am

Thanks Kurt. Hope river-retirement is treating you well. 

I had a couple follow up questions: Terry, you mentioned Danish Oil, just apply with a brush or cloth and let it soak in? This will give me a natural wood look correct?  Also which West Hardener should I use? Fast or Slow? 

Now to the glass, so this boat is a little different, the floor over laps the chine, so there is no way I can put the glass under the chine.  The floor screws into the chine itself. This leads me to believe that I'll need to put glass over the chine and maybe a couple inches up the hull. The last glass I pulled off ended on the chine and it was peeling off. Would this work, or does someone have a better idea?  That being said, I'll need to be careful with the graphite as I won't want it on the hull or chine. 

And one more, I want to add the wood to the hull that you see on most all drift boats that runs along the side. Can I just use wood glue to attach that? If I use tacks it would go through the hull. Thoughts on what kind of wood as well as how to apply? I'm thinking 1/8 thick. 

Thanks all for the help, with out this I'd be lost. 

Permalink Reply by Terry E Walsh on May 15, 2012 at 5:58pm
You can put on the Danish oil or tung oil however you want, aft time it will darKen so if u don't want that use the varnish. I like the slow if u screw up it gives u more time to work! As far as the chine goes a lot of guys don't believe you should ever wrap up or around the edge...but the stitch and glue guys wrap up six inches for protection and they don't put on a chine at all. You can do what ever you like it will work. Cut the 20oz one inch wider then the edge, put on the epoxy cut edge off smooth with razor knife while still a bit green. Next cover with graphite coat and smooth it all out including the edges it will protect bottom of chine and give you a bit more wear and tear. Have fun
Permalink Reply by Collin Ponzo on January 22, 2013 at 2:21pm

Hey guys! Sorry I've been gone far too long! Don't worry the boat is coming along nice and slow. Just wanted to know what OZ Glass should I use? I head 20, I can't seem to find 20oz on http://www.jamestowndistributors.com is there another site that would have what I'm looking for? Thanks again for all the help. One more thing, I can't seem to find the 5200 in clear.. I only find white. Thanks for any help

Permalink Reply by JAY STRUGNELL on January 22, 2013 at 7:11pm

the 5200 comes in white,black or a tan color that looks skintone.Your boat is more capeable in white water than your giving it credit for,very manuverable,just have to be extra careful not to stall in standing wave,or let the wave come in! the side guards are usualy made from 1/4" ply,the sides on bigger drift boats are the same 1/4" thick. mine are made from 1/4" planed walnut the side guards that is.They are attatched through the sides into the frames. Good luck,have fun.

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on January 22, 2013 at 7:21pm

Collin, www.fiberglasssupply.com has a huge selection of fabric, epoxy and tools. They have been good to deal with for me. They are located in Arlington, Washington.

Rick Newman

Permalink Reply by Collin Ponzo on January 23, 2013 at 7:47am

Rick, what OZ weight should I use?

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on January 23, 2013 at 8:35am

Colin, a popular suggestion mentioned by several people is 20 OZ. When I visited the Fiberglass Supply site I saw two knitted fabrics that could be good. The first a knitted Triaxial Bias (+45 deg. / -45 deg. / 0 deg) 19 oz a yard @ $8.80 a yard 50" wide for 3 yards or less, . This is good where you want stiffness in the length or 0 degree orientation. If you want strength in both length and width then a knitted ( 0 degree / 90 degree) fabric 18 oz per yard, 50" width. $9.20 a yard 3 or less yards. It will take several coats of epoxy to fill the weave but you will have a strong bottom with lots of abrasion resistance. I think that adding graphite to these coats will add a degree of smoothness to your boat's bottom and dependent upon how much you use it will also help fill the weave. I know that it did on my boat.

Hope that helps.

Rick Newman

Permalink Reply by Mike Baker on January 23, 2013 at 10:22am

Another fabric that I really like from Fiberglass supply is the c78-3021. 18oz. with a 3/4oz. mat that somehow comes up to 20.55oz? According to there stats. This is also called 1708 Biax from other suppliers.

It wets out much easier than the 19 oz. triax.

I don't mean to hijack the thread but how is the boat coming Rick? Will you have it at the show in April?

Mike

Permalink Reply by tungsten on January 23, 2013 at 5:38pm

You sure that glass with matt is a good idea?Maybe with poly resin but forsure not with epoxy.The 1708 means 17 oz sq/yd glass the 08 means oz per sq/ft for the matt.

 

I'll through in my .02 since i've played with the 22oz triax.The plywood has grains running 0 and 90 with each layer so it makes sence to use glass that runs 45/45 the 0 i'd put on the outside as it finishes nicer.

The glass is hard to deal with so the less you touch or play with it the better.I would wet the ply first with epoxy soak it good let it sit for an hour or so,use slow hardner.The glass is 50" how wide is your bottom.What i'm getting at is you want to unroll the glass once not 3 times.It will disturb the tows too much.Cut it after its wet out and like others have said 5 or so hours later pending on temp.

 

What i like to do is mix my resin in a wide shallow pan you'll need 22oz's of epoxy plus 10% for each sq/yd of glass.I use pie plates from the dollar store,i'll put in 500 grams of epoxy and let them sit on a heating pad set on high this thins the resin and helps to wet out the thick glass.I dont pre heat the hardner just the goo.So i'll have all the resin  i need plus a little more on the heating pad and mix hardner as i go,you can always put the un used back in the container.When ready mix in the hardner mix well for 2 minutes then pour all of it out on the glass and trowel it around, don't let it sit in the container to long.If the room temp is 60F or less you'll have an hour at least before it kicks.After its all wet you'll want to roll it to get rid of the air this will also show were you have too much as it will puddle in front of the roller.

hope this helps.

 

 

Permalink Reply by tungsten on January 23, 2013 at 5:57pm

oh and you'll get these little curls in the 0 tows,you can pull them out by having one guy hold one end and the other pulling them flat,just work your way across.

Permalink Reply by tungsten on January 23, 2013 at 6:16pm

Sorry Mike got that mixed up.the 08 or 3/4oz matt is by the sq/ft not sq/yd so yes .75x9 =6.75 oz sq/yd + what ever the glass is.

Again this kind of glass is not for use with epoxy.It would suck up a ton of resin and not give you much strength.

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on January 24, 2013 at 6:12am

Mike, to paraphrase a statement mentioned here "There aren't mistakes, just opportunities for improvements!" I have revised the outside finish scheme several times. One side of theboat is almost ready for paintand the other side isn't too far away. So once I have several coats of color and clear on I will install the outer chine and flip the boat over. All the boat furniture has finish on it and is awaiting installation. So gunnels and furniture to be installed. The trailer I bought needs to be sandblasted and a few coats of finish applied. 

It's been about 35 degrees in my shop so I haven't felt like pouring a bunch of heat in yet, but will soon. I don't know why it won't be there!

Rick

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