Middle Fork in late September?

Hey, a friend just pulled a permit for the Middle Fork in late September with a 9/29 launch date, so several of us are planning a trip.

Most of us have done a good bit of whitewater boating mostly in canoes and kayaks, though some rafting. And as you may have read elsewhere in the forum I have a drift boat (two years into my bottom replacement, but getting really close).

At least one of our group has run the Grand Canyon more than once in an open canoe, solo and tandem. And several of us have run the Middle Fork in either canoes and kayaks.

So our tentative plan is to run it this year, most likely, all in open canoes, with no raft support.

But none of us has ever run it this late in the year. So can you guys give me some idea of what to expect? Low water, pleasant days and chilly nights. And plan for much worse?

If we change our minds about the raft support, is it still possible to get a raft down the river that late in the season?

And how's the fishing in late September, early October?

Thanks for any advice.

Jack

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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on March 11, 2013 at 7:26am

Jack, can you say Pinball Wizard? My estimation is that you have chosen the right craft(s). Ultimate manueverability, light loads, highly skilled boaters. I found out that you can't take a Lower Main Salmon load on the Middle Fork even at 6 feet at Boundary Creek. Well you can take it you just have to work really hard to stay off rocks.

Early trips can have highly variable, read cold weather, snow rain etc. Have you looked into this aspect? Not a problem when you are on the river, but could be interesting camping with minimal gear.

Rick Newman

Permalink Reply by Rojo on March 11, 2013 at 8:39am

Should be a great small boat trip. The rapids are boney, but there's not as much push. There are a couple of steep, sharp spots (Tappan Falls and Devil's Tooth come to mind--certainly there are more--that's just what I can remember), but they are still runnable. I've guided intermediate canoeists, kayakers, and novice inflatable kayakers at pretty low levels (sub 2.0 ft), and they did pretty well. 

Plan for cold nights up top, but it should be quite pleasant as you drop in elevation. While snow is a possibility even in July (we had a storm up there years ago) and I've had a water bottle freeze on the 4th of July at Boundary Creek, the weather pattern is usually pretty stable here in September. I would think fishing would be great that time of year, but I've never floated it quite that late.

One thing to consider is flying some gear into one or more of the backcountry airstrips. When I worked for an outfitter up there (Canyonsinc.com), we would fly a load of food/gear/beer to Indian Creek to take some of the load out of the rafts for the shallow top section. This might make a lot of sense given the size of your crafts. It's not cheap, but it's not ridiculous if you split it with the whole group. Other airstrips to consider would be Thomas Creek and the Flying B (although that one's private, and they may not allow it). There is a strip just below Flying B at Bernard Guard Station. I think the pilots don't particularly like that strip. Bernard is the last strip in the canyon.

I'm not an expert, but I've been up there a few times. PM me if you have specific questions, and I'll do my best to help.

Have a blast.

Permalink Reply by Rojo on March 11, 2013 at 8:43am

One more thing: This is an excellent guidebook Middle Fork Guidebook Written by longtime MF guide Matt Leidecker

Permalink Reply by Jack Rose on March 11, 2013 at 9:51am

Rick, Rojo, thanks for the responses.

So we're talking less big water, but more technical.  I don't think any of us has ever run the Middle Fork before August, so it sounds like maybe our experiences, then, won't be too different, though maybe a bit more boney and technical.  And cold.

The one time I went down was an August canoe/kayak trip.  But we had a couple of oar-frame rafts along in support that required more than one Z-drag to get them through the upper part.

Not to split hairs, but are we still talking Class III-IV like in August?

So this time, we should pack more fleece, and save some weight by swapping out the beer for something more efficient, like our very own home brew from down the road in Lynchburg, TN?  Either that, or lose about 20 lbs before putting on.

And thanks for the book suggestion.  I've ordered Matt Leidecker's book and already swapped e-mail with him on the same subject as this thread.

Any other concerns?  Thanks, again.

Jack

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on March 11, 2013 at 11:17am

Jack, don't they have moonshine or Everclear in your neck of the woods? I hear that Apple Pie Moonshine made from Everclear, apple cider, cinnamon sticks and vanilla beans tastes pretty good!

When we used to regularly float the Main Salmon we used Arnold's Aviation out of McCall to fly mail into Yellow Pine Bar where we knew the caretaker's Newt and Sharon. I think the regulations on what you can fly in now are much tighter than they used to be at least through the USPS. However we also just paid for the goodies to be purchased in McCall and then have them flown into YPB. 

Snares and traps might help with protein collection, burn off the hair, turn over the fire on a green stick, add a little salt and pepper, there you go. Should be some huckleberries at the tops of ridges too. No pots, no pans, no fuel, You could lose the weight while you are on the trip!

Good luck on your planning, wish I could go with you.

Rick Newman

Permalink Reply by Jack Rose on March 11, 2013 at 11:53am

Rick thanks for the suggestions. 

So, you mean like Rotgut? White Lightnin'? Hooch? Popskull? Or my personal favorite, Splo?

Nah, we ain't got nuthin' like that 'round here.  I mean, this is by-God East Tennessee, by God! We's mostly just plain, church-goin' folks.  Why, I'm not even sure what you're a'gettin' at.

And even if a man did have such a thing (and 'course he don't, I'm just sayin') with the price of gasoline the way it is, why he'd be burnin' it in his pick-up truck, anyways.

Though I may remember a, uh ..., friend who used to be able to get it from a guy whose name he never learned.  The guy would show up on my ... I mean ... my friend's front porch early on a Saturday morning with a wide-brimmed hat pulled down over his eyes, and with a two-quart Ball jar of 'shine in each hand.  Cash only, of course.

Problem is the liquor lobby got involved and made it legal to distill corn likker in Tennessee (why, I never!), so now you can buy it at the package store. And because it tastes pretty much like the real thing, and even comes in glass Ball jars, it's pretty much put the mom-and-pop boot-leggers out of business.

How's that for trickle-down economics?

As for snares and traps, though I have friends who aren't opposed to "harvesting" the occasional road-kill possum, especially if it's early on a cool morning and hasn't been hit too many times, we'll probably be a bit more conventional in our food selection.

Jack

Permalink Reply by Rojo on March 11, 2013 at 3:05pm

Don't think I realized I was talking to a Tennessee open-boater (open-boater should read: people who like to swim big rapids...).

The river is definitely still III-IV (and easy on the IV side in my opinion). The moves are way different than Eastern water moves (I also used to guide on the New and Gauley in West by God). It's less technical. I think the ratings on the MF reflect the fact that the whitewater is fairly continuous (although obviously less so at Fall water levels), the water is extremely cold (again less so in the fall), and because the canyon is remote and rescue difficult (that part's true no matter what season).

As far as other concerns, I can't think of much. We'll have to see what the fire season is like this year. Snowpack is average to a little low. That usually increases the risk of fire somewhat. I've only seen them "close" the river one time because of the severity of fires. It may affect your trip but won't ruin it.

I think a September trip will be a real treat. What a beautiful place. I am very jealous.

Permalink Reply by Daniel Martin Romano on March 11, 2013 at 3:46pm

Bring your fly rods cause the fishing will be out of control that time of year.  If you take a raft for support make sure it is light (maybe fill the helium or hydrogen).  Should be an awesome time of year to be down there.  Not sure if chuckar season is open then or not if so take a light shot gun and plan to shoot lots of the little bastards.

Cheers

Dano

Permalink Reply by Jack Rose on March 11, 2013 at 5:07pm

Daniel, I like the sound of that.  Last time on the Middle Fork, for some reason, I didn't take my fly rod and found the evenings around the campsite completely frustrating, seeing the rises and knowing what was just below them.

I like the sound of chuckar, too, though I might have to Google that one.  Are they like those spruce grouse that you could hunt with a badminton racket?  Though that would make the whole catch and release thing kind of messy.

And yes, Rojo, open boater = swim big rapids.  I've swum (swam?) my share of the New river, but somehow never made it up to the Gauley. But most of us have also swum most of the Ocoee and Chattooga and Nantahala, too.

You guys are making sound like a great trip. 

Thanks,

Jack

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on March 11, 2013 at 6:29pm

Jack, remember that weight you were talking about loosing. Chasing Chukars could help with that. If you bring a well trained Chukar dog and a good, long shooting shotgun you might get close to some. They have a tremendous ability to fly just out of range when you hunt without a dog. They like to fly to the bottom of the next canyon, setting their wings and cruising downhill.

With that being said I have also seen dozens if not hundreds of them along the shore line of the Lower Main Salmon.

Yes, we are all envious of your trip. Take lots of photos.

Rick Newman

PS, Maybe you could teach the dog to row the gear boat too!

Permalink Reply by Daniel Martin Romano on March 11, 2013 at 6:57pm

I have worked the Middle Fork a little and actually know that Matt Leidecker dude.  He took photos at my weeding and I worked for a bit with him on the Middle Fork.  His book is great and a must have for any middle for trip.  If you need the inside info PM Rojo or myself.

Cheers

Permalink Reply by Jack Rose on July 31, 2013 at 8:13pm

Hey guys, I'm reviving an old thread.  I did buy Matt's book and it is great.  Thanks for the recommendaiton.  It has lots of advice on rapids and campsites, plus nice photos, plus side hikes and history and natural history and geology, too. 

I just wish I had waited a week as the third edition came out just after I got mine.  It has lots of info on recent fires and how resulting landslides have modified the river.

Anyway, we're still planning on a 9/29 put-in date.  Looks like we'll have four solo canoes and one tandem.

But I'm wondering if anyone knows of a discussion group that would have real-time information, like from current guides or folks who have just run it, so we can get an idea of water levels, new hazards, etc.


Thanks,

Jack

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