Does Anyone Know Who These Chuckle Heads Are?

WBP,

I was going through boxes of photos and ran across this one. Was wondering if anyone knew about the boat as well as the folks in the boat? I assume the boat is Martin Litton's second "Diablo Canyon" built by Don Hill? By the looks of the background, they are in a city park, lake or someones swimming pool...

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Permalink Reply by Roger Fletcher on June 14, 2010 at 9:47pm
According to my interviews with Martin he met Keith Steele in 1961 when visiting the McKenzie White Water Parade. Litton commissioned two boats: one for Pat Reilly (Susie Too, the follow-up to Reilly’s Susie-R), and his own boat that he originally named the Portella, but later named Diablo Canyon (not to be confused with Diablo Canyon II, a boat built by Steele 12 or 13 years later). I have no idea who the folks are in the boat pictured. Perhaps Brad or other Colorado aficionados recognizes them. Given the hairdos I'd say we're looking at late 1960s or early 1970s photo.
Permalink Reply by Brad Dimock on June 14, 2010 at 9:56pm
That's definitely Martin's old Don Hill boat. I think it ended up in Durango, and that might be where this is. That wouldn't have happened until the late 80s at the earliest--maybe the early 90s. Don't recognize any of the occupants. There is snow on the ground, which would not likely be Hurricane, UT, and the boat was originally painted and named there. So it must be later.

Martin's original Keith Steele boat was named after the valley where he lived--Portola.
Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on June 16, 2010 at 12:16pm
Ok I'm confused guys. The first Litton boat made by Keith is called the Portola-Diablo Canyon
Another Diablo Canyon (II) was made 12-13 years later by ? Keith Steele or Don Hill?
Permalink Reply by Brad Dimock on June 16, 2010 at 2:53pm
Steele made the original Portola around 1962, subsequently renamed the Diablo Canyon. That boat eventually got retired and it pretty much rotted away in the back 40. Then, in the late 70s or early 80s, Don Hill built the beast in this picture, named the Diablo Canyon. In discussing the two, the suffix I or II can be used, but there was no II affixed to the second boat. It was, and is in most folks' opinion, too tall, making for an awkward rowing angle. Also, it's hard to get your beer off the floor from way down in those deep hatches.
Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on June 16, 2010 at 4:02pm
So, do you know the difference in the height between the Keith Steele version and the Don Hill version. I've heard the story over and over about a boat that is too tall. You can't wash your hands reaching over the side, yada yada. Tall seems good for really big water. I guess I'm asking two questions.

1. height difference between the two Diablo Canyons?
2. how high is too high?
Permalink Reply by Brad Dimock on June 16, 2010 at 4:39pm
I couldn't tell you any of the measurements. I never measured the II, and the I was rotting away in the yard upside down by the time I showed up. That would be apples and oranges anyhow, since they were totally different hull designs. But I know Martin asked Hill to raise the sides a few inches. The result was having a pretty steep oar angle from oar to water, or having to use an oar that was way too long, or putting in such a godawful heavy load that you get the gunwales down to where they should be--either way, it's bad. And was bad. I ran a lot of trips along side that thing and the boatmen bitched a lot about it. I think Martin thought the high sides would be good in big water, as you say--and it did run drier than most--but he failed to take into account what that would do to the geometry of rowing.

That boat also had a 1/4" thick green plastic sheet screwed to the bottom to make it slippery. It ended up rotting the floor to pieces in a few short years.

I guess the answer to "how high is too high?" needs to be worked out as you design the boat. For a given beam of boat, there's an ideal oar length that, when exceeded, makes for difficult rowing, especially in big water. There's also an ideal height at which the oar handles sit in your hands when pulling a stroke--above your shoulders is way too high--belly button level is way too low. I like somewhere between nipple and shoulder level. And there is a weight limit for the boat that determines the height of the oarlock above the water--too heavy, it's a pig; too light, it's tippy and unballasted (in big water, that is). So you gotta juggle all that to decide how high to design your wall height and oarlock height.

I do know Briggs pretty much nailed it. Andy Hutchinson builds a lot of Briggs clones and he told me he doesn't like to raise the walls more than half an inch, as it starts to not work right pretty quickly.
Permalink Reply by Chris Berger on January 26, 2013 at 6:26pm

Brad,

According to Don Hill, the Diablo Canyon II was built in 1972 for Martin.  Maybe I don't know any better, but I think this boat handles great.  It has been in Westwater, Cataract Canyon the Grand Canyon, San Juan, Dolores, Animas River and Yampa, and on Ruby/Horsethief since I restored it in 2004.  And I find it a fun, responsive, beautiful and reliable craft.      Chris Berger

Permalink Reply by Robb Grubb on January 27, 2013 at 3:24pm

Chris,

Great to hear that boat is running rivers. It would be great if you could post some photos of the boat, especially the chine / bottom line, hatch detail, profile shots, maybe even some measurements.

I am interested to see if there are some similarities of your boat and my boat regarding the hull shape.

When I worked with Don Hill guiding and building (mid 90's), we were always going back and forth (mildly arguing) about bastardizing McKenzie style boats with decks, compartments and such. He always talked about your boat (Martin's) and was very proud of it.

Regards, Robb Grubb

www.RiverTraining.net

Permalink Reply by Mike Baker on June 15, 2010 at 5:22pm
I love this picture. You gotta love the retro stuff. Brad says it is later but that sure looks like late 70's stylishness. Looks like they are having fun anyways.
Mike
Permalink Reply by Dave Z on June 15, 2010 at 6:47pm
Ha! they are definitely fashion forward! I want the sweater that dude on the left is wearing.

The dude on the right looks like Han Solo. hahaaha!
Permalink Reply by Dave P on June 19, 2010 at 7:59am
I don't know the folks in the pic, but the Diablo Canyon (II) is owned by Chris Berger in Durango. He, Andy Hutchinson, and I think one or 2 others restored her a while back. I boated the Salt in May with Chris, and was able to pick his brain about that boat and his other decked McKenzie boat he built (since I am in progress of building a decked Briggs style) . Great guy with a decent knowledge of Linton and early boat names, etc. I think the boat name list came from Brad.
I saw the 2 boats last November but my notes I took are too fuzzy even for me to read much less list here, and the batteries died in my camera. He did state however, he did enjoy rowing it, thought it handled just fine and he didn't think that it was problem at all to get a beer from the bottom of the boat. One man's opinion.
I hate to list another persons phone number, but if interested, I could give him a call and ask.
Great site, thanks for all the great info!
Permalink Reply by Robb Grubb on June 19, 2010 at 2:18pm
David,

Great information! It is cool to know the boat is still afloat. Any information, stories, design lines, etc. you could gather (especially photos) of the boat to post is what this site is all about!

Post some photos of your contraption too!!

Cheers,

Robb Grubb
www.RiverTraining.net

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