Wooden Boat People
By McKenzieDriftBoat.com
Lightweight wood for gunwales and hand rails
So obviously white oak is out at 47 lbs per sq ft. At around 40 lbs per square foot I get into light hardwoods..mahogany and ash. Ash is a pretty ideal wood given it's shock absorption, etc. but it's slightly rot prone. I plan to oil the gunwales, but rot is my main concern with ash. Mahogany is a possibility at around the same weight, is dense and beautiful, but doesn't like bending so much, and I have heard it described as brittle. It has better rot resistance than ash, but I would probably choose ash in that weight catagory because it seems to have better physical characteristics. I can get African mahogany locally but the mill won't vouch for the species. Sounds like Khaya or sipo are the two best choices, sapele too. I think most African is Khaya, but I won't pay the lumberyard their ransom if they won't vouch for the species.
Now if I get into softwoods I can get even lighter.
My current boat has Doug fir gunwales. 34 ish pounds per sq ft It's definatly a bit soft, not abrasion resistant and tends to split easy on the grain... But it's dirt cheap, readily available, bends well, rot resistant, and pretty strong for its weight. I built my current gunwales out of one 16' piece of framing fir. Cost me less than $20. After 4 years of pretty hard use they definatly have a few dings, but still look good and don't owe me anything at this point. I'd consider it again as a cheap alternative if I can't find a better option. I'm interested in cedars tho. I haven't found a good source for the small amount of port orford (30 lbs sq ft) I would need. One place said they had a few nice boards but I had to buy them all for $500. That's a little more than I can justify for gunwales. I do have a line on some Alaska yellow cedar 32 lbs sq ft. It's expensive but not unreasonable. Looks like it is a little lighter than fir, but very rot resistant and fairly strong. I have scoped a few boards of Alaska yellow cedar decking at the local lumber yard. Without working it, I can't tell much about its physical properties. Don't know how it compares to fir in strength, and hardness.
I'm mostly looking for 1. Light 2. Pretty strong 3. Hard 4. Rot resistant in that order. Can anyone care to comment about Alaska yellow cedar, fir, or any other suitable woods for gunwales and handrails?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on
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Chris, I have had Ash on my boat for several years, with an actual season of use. I used it for my inner chine logs as the White Oak that came with the Tatman kit snapped when I had clamped them before installing them. I also read that it was rot prone but figured that I don't keep my boat in the water and that they dry well between uses. It bends well, looks good and takes oil (Daly's Seafin Teak Oil) just fine. I also replaced a set of outer chine logs on another drift boat locally. It hasn't yet been in the water but looks just fine and was easy to work.
AYC is a nice wood in my mind. It is less durable than Ash but is easy to work and as yo have noted quite light. I would love to find some here in Spokane for internal framing as I plan to deck much of it over so I can do some bigger water. On the woodenboatforum.com AYC has a good reputation. On of the guys there built one of his sailboats in the early seventies from AYC in a strip built manner. He keeps it in the Virgin Islands and sails on it very winter. If you want to look it up he posts under the name of "Wizbang" and recently ran a thread about some repairs he did in 2012. He has sheathed the boat in fiberglass and epoxy as well as painted it.
You could even do a set of laminated gunwales like Sandy promotes with AYC as the main piece(s) with Ash on the outside for abrasion resistance.
Just my thoughts, take for what you paid for them.
Rick N
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Permalink Reply by Phillip Westendorf on
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Chris,
By using Ash you can cheat on the size of the inwales and outwales. Maybe you can reduce their size an 1/8" or so each dimension and save a little weight. That stuff is pretty tough. I have it on my 16 ft. Peterborough and they have held up very well over the last 8 years. The garage door even hit it on the bow end (outwale) and barely put dent in it.
I'd think if you went with a softwood you'd be replacing them down the road. Just my $-02 worth.
Dorf
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Permalink Reply by chris towles on
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well, my reticence to use ash is based in some part from experience. i have owned several ash shafted kayak paddles over the years. and i am tough on equipment, especially boating gear. so between tossing the paddle into the back of the truck, cracking it against rocks, etc, the varnish didn't stand a chance. Despite being a boatbuilder i can be kind of lazy about oil maintenance, just cause you need to do it so often. in the case of the paddle, i didn't build it, and so when i wore thru the glass and i didn't fix it the ash would get wet. the shaft had no glass and so the finish wore quickly exposing the ash to the river water. and after even just a couple weeks would start turning a kind of grey color . maybe i need to be more on it with the oil maintenance .should be easy on my boat though. only wood on the thing is gunwales and handrails. regardless, thats my only real hanging point on ash... its pretty middle of the road on weight, defiantly has the best physical qualities of most woods. I just have my heart set on light weight. Im ok with the gunwales not lasting forever too. i won't be glassing them to the boat, ill be using sikaflex 291 which is removable (not easily...but removable notheless). If i need to change them 10 years down the road so be it. all that said, i don't want something thats going to split on me two seasons from now or worse during the middle of some desolate whitewater trip. the doug fir gunwales i have on my current boat have done pretty good... they look nice, were cheap, reasonably light, etc. i just feel like its a bit soft and tends to split along the grain when it goes. I've gone thru 2 doug fir chine battens that busted in half after whacking rocks in shallow water, so i know all about how easy it is to break that stuff. and I'm pretty sure one swift crack off a canyon wall to the gunwales could inflict the same damage. so fir is a last resort. i just hear all these stories about how yellow and port orford cedars (actually members of the cypress family) have such great strength to weight ratios, are hard for their species, and tend to be resilient woods. sounds like what i am looking for, but i don't want to compromise on strength too much. i like light tho...light is right.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Wilcox on
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Cris - If you have a custom millwork shop close to you ; see what they have for drops .[leftover rips]
My local shop usually discounts these , and usually have various long lengths saved . M
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Permalink Reply by Eric Loudenslager on
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Port Orford Cedar or Alaskan Yellow Cedar would be good choices. I made a set of oars from AYC and a greenland paddle from POF.
They are light, strong enough, work easily, and very rot resistant. It will not take dings like white oak. I know a builder in Oregon that regularly uses POC and AYC for gunnels and other interior components.
My gunnels are made from Doug Fir, clear vertical grade with very tight grain. I concur that the draw back to DF is its tendency to split when worked and it dings. I am quite pleased with my gunnels. They are varnished and when they get dings I just fill with epoxy + wood flour. No one notices except my wife and granddaughters.
If I built another boat I would go with POF or AYC for gunnels. My interior wood components are made from mahogany. It is light, but in my opinion does not bend easily.
Fortunately I live a couple miles from Almquist Lumber and can most boat woods. Their supply does vary however.
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Permalink Reply by Dave Z on
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opinions vary, but with the rest of your boat going so light, id go with stiffness/strength and rot resistance and choose white oak. plane your outer rail to 1/2" or even 3/8" and use a 5/8 or even 1/2" inner rail. White oak cannot be beat. it wont discolor as bad as ash. i have lots of grey/black ash that has been in elements.
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