Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on July 11, 2012 at 12:20pm

Brian, I'll take on your challenge. If you were going to do 200+ days a year floating class 3 or 4 rivers I would worry about which boat is tougher. That won't be your issue.

Perhaps some information from you would help us help you best. What is your home river? What is your current level of boating skill? How is your ability to read moving water? The river you are describing is the Umpqua, shelves, ledges, basalt, narrow channels, can be a tough place on boats.

The majority of damage on driftboat's comes along the chine, the place where the side meets the bottom. The McKenzie style boat has addressed the issue with repairable chines. With only five or ten trips a year your kids could be out of college before you need to replace the chines. Now one big, bad hit on the Umpqua could change that in a second. But if you build the boat properly and plan ahead by preparing an extra set of outer chines when you build your boat it may take you and hour or two to fix that damage. Unless you hole the side of the boat at the same time. The advantage of building your own boat is you will understand the construction technique making the repair easier and you will already have collected the necessary tools and repair materials.

One of the attractions I found to wooden boats was the process of building the boat. Sort of like tying flies. What can I create? How do my skills matchup to the challenges of building my own boat? What kind of special changes or custom touches can I do to my boat to make it mine? It's more the voyage than the trip's conclusion. Now did I have that in mind when I started 3 1/2 years ago? No, I am still working on my boat too.

Here's an idea, invest $1,000 to $1,500 in a boat that is currently floatable. Go out this summer with your buddies and family and see what you do and don't like about the boat itself, how does it handle, was my initial idea for what I wanted correct, if you haven't rowed much let this boat take on your learners damage. See what works and what doesn't.

This fall after you are done fishing, then utilize your better knowledge of what you now want and build a boat that best fits your needs. In the meantime buy Roger Fletcher's Drift Boats and River Dories at riverstouch.com.

That's my opinion for what it's worth. I have spent most of my time in fiberglass drift boats, a small bit of time in aluminum and am looking forward to spending the rest of my time in wood or wood and composite.

Rick Newman

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Permalink Reply by Brian Burkholder on July 17, 2012 at 6:18am

Rick,

Thanks for the help, it sounds like I shouldn't worry so much. I'll get down to the business of getting started!

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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on July 17, 2012 at 8:01am

Brian, there is a ton to learn, happily it's pretty easy to learn and it's a great adventure.

Rick N

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Permalink Reply by Sandy Pittendrigh on July 20, 2012 at 6:53am

I'm a stitch and glue (and all fiberglass) builder, so I have a different perspective than Rick.  Rick pointed out many ribbed boat builders have rowed more or less forever with ribbed boats.  So strength, Rick argues, isn't a big issue.  I won't dispute that. But you did ask "which is more durable?"

A direct answer to that question is indisputable.  Stitch and glue is a LOT stronger.  If you accidentally sink a ribbed boat, that gets pinned against a large, mid-river rock in a stiff current, the ribbed boat will split open almost every time.  

A stitch and glue boat is far more likely to survive. Several boats I've built (rowed by others) have survived just that. Every pinned ribbed boat I've ever seen has come apart. For another example,  if you drop off a 3 foot irrigation diversion and miss, and accidentally fall onto an exposed boulder, you will almost always break open a hole in a bare plywood boat bottom, especially if the impact is close to a rib.  A stitch and glue boat will almost certainly be damaged too.  But not nearly as badly. A fractured panel in a stitch and glue boat is a lot easier to repair too--you can flex the panel manually in order to work hot liquid resin down into the fracture lines. And then patch it with a little more glass, on both sides of the fracture line.  

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Permalink Reply by Sandy Pittendrigh on July 20, 2012 at 7:34am

....thought of another repairs follow up too.  If you do badly break a bottom panel in a framed boat, you're in trouble. You can try to glue it and fiberglass it from the outside. But fiberglass on the inside of a plywood bottom panel is problematic.  Glass over plywood on the bottom panel is an all or nothing proposition.  A small area of glass on the inside of a bottom panel will inevitably cause trouble by trapping moisture.  Most of us stitch and glue builders have abandoned plywood (for bottom panels anyway) altogether.  Most of us now use plastic honeycomb core or foam core material (Plascore, CoreCell, etc).  Synthetic panels are stiff enough to make an inflexible bottom during normal use, yet flexible enough to bend dramatically upon impact (so they don't break). And they don't soak up moisture at all. It is entirely possible to hand build a one off boat with a synthetic bottom, 1/4" Meranti Hydrotech sides covered in light glass, and wooden gunwale.  So the boat LOOKS like a wooden boat.  But carries the impact punch of fiberglass.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on July 20, 2012 at 7:59am

Brian, I agree with Sandy as far as the strength issue goes. Any boat is a compromise in terms of needs, asthetics, cost, repairs, where you will row it, what your skills are, what type of water you are going boat etc. I am building a framed boat but would also like to build a stitch and glue boat too. My limit is my lack of income for right now. I like the look of all wood boat but appreciate the toughness and style of the stitch and glue boats. I am not stuck in either camp. I would love to build a traditionally built pocket cruiser sailboat for overnight trips on Puget Sound and the big lakes nearby in Northern Idaho. All boats are wonderful. I've rowed probably 4,000 miles in rafts with often heavy loads. Between passengers and gear maybe a 1,500 pound load. tough to move but with knowledge and practice you can make it work just fine. A few hundred miles of rowing has occurred in fiberglass drift boats because that was what was available. I have an eighteen and 1/2 foot kevlar canoe that hasn't been in the water for years.

Hey it is all boating and that is the good part. Whether you go with framed or stitch and glue you are still floating. Each style has it features and benefits. Between this site and Sandy's site montanariverboats.com you can look at many pictures of boats that were built before. I have attended several of the McKenzie River Wooden Boat Festival put on by Randy Dersham, the instigator of this site. On my page on this site you can see several hundred pictures of boats I have taken there.

Which ever way you go both sites have knowledgeable people that can help you out. the main thing is to get out floating, learning and enjoying. That's the best part. Sandy is a pioneer in stitch and glue and I am very confident and appreciative of his skills and knowledge. You are in good hands whichever way you go.

Respectfully,

Rick Newman

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Permalink Reply by Brian Burkholder on July 20, 2012 at 1:59pm

Part of my problem is the lack of drift boats in the area. There's just not a lot of fellas that have them here in Vermont, though I'd love to get out and try some different boats to see what I like, and it'd be great to get one for cheap that I could learn on - they're just not here in enough quantity for me to get a good look at what's possible. Last weekend I saw a guy fishing a pond out of a fiberglass drift boat, and I would've paddled over to him to ask about it - to see if I could go for an evening  with him to row it and see what I do and don't like about it - but the casting skill (and subsequent necessary instructions from the oarsman) exhibited by his passenger led me to believe he had a client and so I didn't interrupt them. 

 

My only experience drifting was in my 17' Royalex canoe, but with the wind blowing upriver, it was difficult for my brother to fish while I paddled in back. The wind kept grabing a hold of the bow, and the current would push the ass around at the same time and it looked like a redneck ballet out there - just a spinnin' cirlces, round and round and round down the river, cussin' away. It sucked. A boat that's designed for the purpose would be much more enjoyable.

 

In shop class in High School I built a little 8 1/2" dinghy that might be kinda OK if I modified it heavily. The problem is that it's too small for two people to fish out of, but too heavy for one person to lift. It's an oak frame with two 1/8" sheets of luan, epoxied together and then 'glassed on the outside. It's design is basically copied from the shop teacher's sail boat tender and it's certainly better suited to that purpose than to be a fishing craft.  

 

Long story short is that I will have considerable problems finding out what I like and what I don't if I want to see it and experience it in person. Two things I know for sure are that I want a drift boat and that I'd rather build one than buy one pre-built.  I think I'm just going to find a design I like and go for it. Maybe it'll be OK to not know the difference, and just enjoy my boat for what it is.

 

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Permalink Reply by Sandy Pittendrigh on July 20, 2012 at 2:41pm

Framed boats make a good first project. My first half dozen drift boats were framed.  It's the cheapest fastest and easiest way to build. But not the strongest or the most long term durable way to go.  Stitch and glue is more expensive, both for material cost and for time involved.  But that is the way I build.  So, as a guy who has built both ways, that tells you what think about how to make the best possible boat. Both Montana Riverboats and Montana Boat Builders have useful stitch and glue drift boat building information.  There may be other sources too. Those are the two I know about.

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