Don Hill 16ft Restoration

My name is Channing. I was born and raised in Eugene. I loved growing up on the McKenzie and Willamette rivers. I have always marveled at the beauty of wooden drift boats. I am a forester and love the look of natural wood. Now I live in Pocatello, Idaho and it seems the rivers are ruled by glass boats. Hopefully I can change some opinions about that when I am done restoring this classic Don Hill 16' HS. My wife purchased this for me in June. I was told it would be river worthy, so planned to use it all summer and start the refinishing this winter. After five minutes in the water I realized it needed work sooner than later. So, I am planning to start on the exterior and the bottom first. I am planning to completely strip the boat down, re-glass and epoxy it and then new varnish. I have never attempted anything like this but would welcome any advice. I am sure I will have many questions as I go along. I have browsed this web site enough to know it is a great place to tap into the collective knowledge that is out there. I will try to keep updated with the progress with posts and pictures.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on September 8, 2012 at 8:50pm

Channing, welcome to the party. There are many boats that have been purchased that were promised to be river worthy and weren't. Drift boats receive the most damage at the chines because that's where they hit rocks and recieve the greatest wear. Yours shows the signs of such damage. The chine area needs to be in good condition so that your boat won't leak. The seal between the side and bottom is located there. Multiple screws join the inner chine log to the sides, the outer chine log to the sides and the bottom to the chines and the frame. These need to be bedded with a flexible material to provide a seal to keep moisture at bay. I personally like a polysulfide sealant, Boat Life is what I am currently using. 3M also has 3M 101. The feature I like best about polysulfide caulks/sealants is they are not an adhesive so you can later remove parts. They remain flexible so they can move and flex a bit to keep things sealed.


You will need to inspect and test your boat to see how solid the wood is. An ice pick or scratch awl will prove helpful. If I were working on your boat I would remove a few of the screwsthat are visible in your pictures. I would want to know if they are bedded, if they are rusty, what material they are made with and if they are loose.

Here is a series of posts on repairing a boat bottom done by Sanderson, Randy Dersham's son.

http://www.woodenboatpeople.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1312281%3ABlo...

There are numerous posts on previous "non-river-worthy" boats like yours. The search function will prove helpful, I simply did a search with the word "bottoms" to find Sanderson's posts.

Keep us informed and post more pictures. That lots of information on the repairs, appropriate materials and such on these pages. We are a helpful group and are eager to give our opinions.

Rick Newman

Permalink Reply by Channing Swan on September 9, 2012 at 9:44am

Rick

Thanks for the reply. I was able to get the old glass and epoxy off rather easily. After this was accomplished I found have several concerns that lead me to consider replacing the bottom. This seems a bit intimidating and I did not really want to go that route if it was not really needed. First concern in the back of the boat the previous owners did not have a secure area for the anchor. So a meaty 30 pound anchor bounced around in two spot. This eroded the plywood inside the boat about halfway down. After removing the glass and epoxy I found the corresponding spot on the bottom was bowed out and very thin. I could probably stick a knife through it if I pressed hard enough. It is not rotten, just thin. This will be the first  picture. The second concern is one of the screws seems to be rotten through. I dug around and it is about the size of a drain hole, but I have not gotten to the extent of the rot so it may be bigger. This is the second pic. Third concern is that there is a drain hole that sits about 18 inches in front of the rower seat on the right side. It is the lowest spot on the bottom, but it also hits every rock in the river so the plugs get beat up. Was this a common spot to put a drain on Don Hill Boats? I was considering patching/filling this and putting a drain above the chin on the side of the boat. This is the third picture. I think collectively I will probably replace the bottom. I was going to uses two layers of 10 oz glass, hoping this would be solid enough, but this seems sort of half assed based on what I have seen with the bottom.  Also the chins are beat up but not horrible, though on the right side of the boat it split and filed with epoxy.

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Permalink Reply by Guy Fredrickson on September 9, 2012 at 10:25am

Channing,

Regarding the bottom: I can't tell for sure looking at the pictures, but what about this suggestion.  Now that you've removed the fiberglass from the bottom, cleanup the bottom plywood as much as you can by removing the obviously dry-rotted wood that has no structural integrity.  At that point, maybe you can epoxy-seal and fair the bottom as-is, and then add a layer of new 1/4-in.-thick marine plywood over the existing bottom.  Put plenty of epoxy between the old bottom and the new bottom, and then fiberglass and epoxy the surface of the new bottom.  Of course, this process would include removing and replacing the chine caps.  This is what I would do if nearly all of the existing bottom is salvageable.

Regarding the drain plug: I am in the process of building a drift boat and I am considering not installing a drain plug, because I plan to store the boat indoors.  I will keep a bilge pump on the boat for when I have to drain water.  If I were to store the boat outdoors, then I would install a drain plug to drain the hull in whatever position the hull is resting during storage.  I think it is the standing water that collects for long periods of time during storage that kill these wooden boats.  I would not suggest installing a drain plug above the chine, as it would be of no use in this regard.

Good luck with your project.  It looks like a boat well worth restoring.

Guy

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on September 10, 2012 at 6:40am

Channing, I'm going to add a modification to Guy's suggestion. If the majority of the wood in the bottom is good it might make sense to simply add a "Dutchman" or two. For those not familair with that wood working term it refers to replacing a piece rather than the entire item, much like the little Dutch boy sticking his finger in the dike to stop the leak. After removing the bad wood with a saw, knife, chisel, etc, use a router to establish a half-lap joint matching the one on the Dutchman. Epoxy and perhaps some stainless screws will be helpful here. Do a search for AJ and repairs. He and his remarkable crew are exceptional in restoring and resurecting non-river-worthy drift boats. He has documented this procedure and so has Dutch,  one of his crew.

My variation on Guy's repair strategy comes from Dave Z's boat building techniques. Instead of epoxy to add a "shoe" . Dave Z has documented this techniques and explains the details very well. I suggest epoxying the boat's bottom but treating the shoe with "boat soup" an old time mixture of turpentine, linseed oil, Japan Dryer and Pine Tar. Then screw it on following Dave's directions. The expense will be lower and it shouldn't take too long to do. If you ever need to replace the shoe it will be quick. Just remember to bed any screws with an appropriate bedding compound.


The chine caps will still need to be replaced but those aren't very difficult. Ash, White Oak, Doug Fir, Mahogany are all good choices. I was able to find some ash that was 20 feet long so i didn't need to do a scarf. There are plenty of postings on doing a scarf in a chine or chine log. Guy has a nice technique in his current posting, try pages three or four.

The chine cap can also be treated with boat soup. The sides of your boat appear to be Douglas Fir so will require a lamination of fiberglass and epoxy to keep them from checking. There are numerous choices for epoxy, you may already have a favorite. I have had good service from Fiberglass Supply located in Western Washington.

Good luck on your project, you should soon be floating and fishing. Keep us informed and post more pictures.

Rick Newman

Permalink Reply by Channing Swan on September 10, 2012 at 6:32pm

Thank you all for helping my hubby.  He is so excited about this project and he couldn't do it with out your knowledge and support.

Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on September 10, 2012 at 8:25pm

You are very welcome. If it weren't for others I wouldn't have learned what I have. Besides I enjoy helping people!

Rick Newman

Permalink Reply by Channing Swan on July 28, 2013 at 12:49pm

Sorry for falling off the radar. Hurt my hand last falls and when it was healed it was ski season, then into spring fishing etc. I have not totally been off the wagon though.  I have been working on my boat and have replaced the chines (thou not installed) and been sanding sanding, sanding, sanding.  I am almost ready to start the bottom.  I need to add a shoe on the bottom. (See previous post).  So I have  couple of questions.  Should I  fill the holes (one spot of rot about the size a quarter) and uneven areas on the bottom with epoxy or some type of wood filler like a putty of some sort? I was going to cover the whole bottom with 1/4 to 1/2 inch fir.

Second question,  the chines.  I was planning on the glass coming over the side about 4-6 inches. Should I put the Chines under or over the cloth? Last question,  the drain hole. I have read other post regarding arguments both side regarding whether you needs one. I think I do want one, but the current location in on the lowest spot on the boat. I understand why it’s located there, but should I move it?

Permalink Reply by Richard Elder on July 29, 2013 at 2:24pm

Hi Channing

I can't think that trying to reinforce a bottom that is far enough gone to require a complete overlay of 1/4" or 1/2" ply is the way to go.  You will need to completely bond the new to the old with epoxy and filler with no voids. Hard or impossible to do if the old bottom is irregular.

Rather than trying to remove all the (invariably semi-rusted) screws that hold the bottom on and then struggle to break the bond to the frames, just get out your Skill saw. Mark out all the frame locations and inner chine locations on the outside, and cut out the unsupported sections.  Then go to work with a large chisel, vice grips, hack saw, pry bar---whatever works for you without damaging the frames.  Before you run out of the first six pack you'll have most of it off.  (well, that ratio might not hold for AJ) (LOL)

Now you have a clear picture of what if any repairs need to be done to the inner chines and frames which are the key to the boat's structure. When it comes time to glass over the bottom don't fool yourself with a light cloth.  You want to build up some toughness and thickness to resist years of beaching and talking to rocks.  That requires 18-24 oz of biax or triax. or 24 oz roving plus cloth, all bedded in epoxy.  For the final layers graphite is pretty, but if you use about 60% silica it will be a lot tougher and still black.

ps:  I grew up in Blue River on the upper McKenzie and now live in Driggs.  Parallel paths--.

Permalink Reply by AJ DeRosa on July 30, 2013 at 7:31am
Channing,
Richard's advice is right on. A new bottom properly installed will last a very long time.

On a frame built boat with chine caps the fiberglass cloth should be cut at the bottom's edge. Wrapping it over the edge and up the side might sound like a good idea but it is not. The wooden chine cap installed about 1/16th" proud will protect the cloth/epoxy edge just fine. Some may disagree with this but trust me that drilling holes and running screws through that glass that wraps up the side is just asking for trouble. In the past 35 years I have made about every mistake that a rookie can make when it comes to fussing with these boats. I'm older and a bit wiser now from those mistakes.

Two schools of thought on drain plugs.
1 put it in the lowest place on the bottom when the boat is sitting level on the trailer. Now your boat will drain as it sits on the trailer.

2 put it at the transom end and it will drain as you roll it on to the trailer. At rest raise the trailer tongue onto a sawhorse and it will drain very well.

And then there is option three that is probably the best, do both.

Have fun!

AJ
Permalink Reply by Robb Grubb on August 1, 2013 at 11:38pm

Channing, A couple of years ago I replaced the bottom and both chines on my 16 foot standard Don Hill. It was certainly time consuming and a pain in the butt, however doing it the right way pays off. Below is a link to that project back then:

http://www.woodenboatpeople.com/forum/topics/new-bottom-and-chine-o...

I pretty much did what the gentlemen here are commenting on, good luck and enjoy the process.

Cheers, Robb

www.RiverTraining.net

Permalink Reply by Channing Swan on August 3, 2013 at 9:41am

Thanks for all the advice.  I guess I am not quite sure what route to take.  I was going to add a show following Dave Z advice, but with the boat soup instead of epoxy between the shoe and the bottom.  The problem I am having is I have never done this before and am not really sure how bad the bottom is.  When the old epoxy bottom came off in places it pulled some of the top layers of the ply off.  These divits are not deep (see photo), and did not seem to make the bottom any weaker.  The whole reason for the shoe was because of the anchor bouncing around the floor in two place.  There the bottom is thin and I could probably put a knife through it without much  force. 

 

If I go with a shoe following Dave Z advice do I need to fill in these divits and sand smooth before I add the shoe.  I am still going to epoxy and glass the bottom with at least two coats of good glass. 

 

On a further note I believe the inside chines are okay but am not 100% sure about this.

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Permalink Reply by tungsten on August 4, 2013 at 6:47pm

Spread some plain goo all over boat and shoe,let that kick,then thickened goo to fill the low areas again let that kick,with a notched trawl spread thickened goo again, lay down shoe with weights let cure.

You'll want to do this over a 24hr period or so,pending on hardener and temp.Practice with some scrap wood and mix up some thickened goo, get a feel for dry times and how deep your mixing cups are.

West as a great site lots of good info there.

 

 

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