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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on December 22, 2014 at 7:19am

Chris, have you done a nice slow trip on the Main Salmon? We did a wonderful 13 day trip there years ago. Layover day, hot springs day, Ran from Corn Creek to Hammer Creek it was a very good trip. Mid July, reasonable water, not too big, not too low trees, shade, beauty and more. I don't know current regulations but you might be able to gather wood and enjoy campfires in firepans.

The trip from Minam to Troy starting on the Minam River with the majority of the trip on the Grande Ronde. Rapids are minimal, fishing can be great, rattlesnakes are common, can be a nice five day trip. Deschutes River is a shorter trip, actually canoed it. 

The Lower Main Salmon River doesn't require a permit, if done in early July the water can be fun and big, great sandy beach campsites, good temperatures, scenic and very pleasant, can be good for fishing. You can float from above Riggins all the way to Heller Bar on the Snake, makes it a good long trip. There may also be a potential for campfires here too.

There are some floats in Montana such as the Flathead in wilderness sections, never floated any of the Flathead Rivers. Smith River in Montana is reported to be a good multiday float, highly rated for fishing, not so much for rapids. The Marias River in northern Montana doesn't require a permit and should be a good wilderness experience. I am planning on doing it in 2016.

There's more but I don't remember them right now. I would love to join you on the Main or Lower Main, I have floated the Main Salmon five times and the Lower Main more than 40 times.

Rick N

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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on December 22, 2014 at 7:25am

I forgot to add the Owyhee, I have never done it but have frequently discussed it with my old rafting partner who was the River Ranger there for many years. The only time to float it is early, can have some very nasty water in some of the upper sections on the upper forks of the river, depends a lot on snowmelt and rainfall. If you have specific questions I can put you in touch with my friend.

Good luck on permits, I am going to try for the Main Salmon.

Rick N

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Permalink Reply by chris towles on December 23, 2014 at 1:16am

Rick,

Thanks for the great info. I haven't heard of a few of those rivers, but have heard good things about the grande ronde. I'll look into those more. That's exactly what I was hoping for. The whitewater on any trip isn't important, although some would be nice. More hoping to give my gf a taste of boat camping, let her row the new boat, find the best trim etc., get dialed in on the new boat myself especially loaded for a week. Most of all, I'd like to check out someplace I haven't been.

if you have a raft setup, consider doing the main during high water season pre lottery season. Late May and early June. Main salmon lottery opens late...like in late June. Prior to that its really easy to just reserve dates first come first serve or pick up cancellations. I had a main permit for early June last year I just picked up, no lottery, on the website. I had won a middle fork for 5 days earlier and wanted to turn the corner. Didn't find anyone to come for the second leg so I had to cancel it but me and a buddy had a wild ride down the middle fork at 6-7 ft self support in kayaks. Did the middle fork a 3 years back on a late May trip with rafts and kayakers from the top on a pre season permit. They just picked that one up too..no lottery. A few of those guys turned the corner and did the main, and I was jealous that I didn't get to. One of these years I would love to pull up a cancellation last minute and try to kayak from marsh creek to riggins at high water. A friend I know has a buddy that did it in a day at 8-9 ft a few years back on that big winter. I'd probably go at a little lower water and give myself 5 days.

It's a veritable ghost town on the river that time of year compared to the mess of commercial season. I've heard people talk about it being cold that time of year, but in years of Idaho boating late May/first week of June I've always found it to be pleasant. Don't listen to me tho I'm from Jackson, it's cold here.

The lower sounds like fun too starting at corn creek or vinegar creek. What's the water like below and is there good trout fishing?

As to dates I'm looking at mid April or late May most likely...if it's earlier I'll head to the desert, if it's later I'll prob head to Idaho or Montana. Thanks for the tips.

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Permalink Reply by David Jensen on December 23, 2014 at 7:55am

Owyhee:  Deep canyon, like the Bruneau, very remote, and fun rapids. So remote that law enforcement couldn't find Claude Dallas in there, even using U-2 spy planes.

John Day:  Varied canyons, lots of homesteads to explore (watch for snakes), and a few fun rapids.  One of the best bass fly waters to fish.

Rogue:  Grave Creek to Foster Bar;  beautiful scenery, lots of wildlife (deer, elk, eagles, otters, and lots of brown bear).  Great rapids.  Salmon and steelhead fishing.

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Permalink Reply by Gregg Maddock on December 23, 2014 at 11:08am

I saw the Rio Verde mentioned above.  Have you done the overnights on the "B" and "C" sections below Little Hole.  We'd spend 2-3 days camped at Bootleggers, Grasshopper I & II or the Pussy Cat Lounge.  The waders fishing the "A" section rarely venture over the hill at Little Hole.  For the reputation that the Rio Verde is crowed, those crowds diminish by 80% once you go past LH.  The "C" section never has anyone on it.  Fewer fish on the "C" but they are large.  I also did not notice the South Fork of the Snake mentioned.  Great multi day trip and no permit required.  Just make sure you fill out your free camp permit that allows you to camp anywhere.  If not you will receive a fine of $100+ like I did.  No warning, just a fine.

 

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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on December 23, 2014 at 11:36am

Chris, I once took a group of students down the Lower Main during spring break. Mid March. It was wonderful. We wore wet suits in those days. Water level was great, lots of deer and elk, great mornings with low clouds and the sun rising through them. Snow on the very highest peaks. Temps were from mid-thirties at night to seventies in the day time. We even got sunburned a bit on the Snake. There weren't even jet boats out on the river.

Another year we, at least a couple of us floated with three different groups from the top of the  Middle Fork at Boundary Creek at 6' on the Middle Fork to Corn Creek, a few weeks later from Corn Creek to Hammer Creek and eventually later on we floated from Hammer Creek to Heller Bar on the Snake. A great series of trips.

I have never personally had any luck with trout on the Lower Main. However at times the Smallmouth Bass can be outstanding. Steelhead are also possible at the right time of year. If you hunt the Chukars can be very numerous at the end of the summer season and if they stick around there would be some good hunting in the fall. Should be able to bag a deer too.

Slide Rapid on the Lower Main can be a real bear at certain water levels for rafters and dories. Memorial Day is the commonly the date of highest runoff sometimes up to 70,000, 80,000 or above. Slide Rapid is a major constricting rapid that as the water levels rise it forms a series of waves that surge and since the walls that form the rapid are uneven, that is one side is further downstream than the other, the waves curls and breaks at an angle to the river flow. When it is large and surging it can flip almost anything. Check out the videos on you tube. I used to be comfortable at 15,000 and below. We portaged it once at some where above 15 to 18 thousand cfs. I don't recommend it. Seven rafts including one of ours flipped that day. One gal swam all the way to the Snake which is several miles away. The jet boater we talked to wasn't very excited about going back down it.

At 7,000 or less there is not even a rapid there. As you are well aware as the water levels change rapids can change, Snowhole becomes somewhat washed out but there is a big one a distance above. When I ran commercially on the Lower Main we didn't start until third week of June or so.

Rick N

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Permalink Reply by Eric Loudenslager on December 24, 2014 at 2:32pm

Three that I have done, would do again, and recommend:
Smith in MT (needs a permit)
Owyhee: Rome to Leslie Gultch
San Rafel, UT: (sic?) class I section "Little Grand Canyon" (did that one in canoes, do not recall whether the put-in would accommodate a dory)

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