Wooden Boat People
By McKenzieDriftBoat.com
Why not Red Oak
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Karl Mueller on
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My understanding is because it has poor rot resistance unlike white oak and as such is not a boat building wood.
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Permalink Reply by Randy Dersham on
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Red Oak is shorter grained than White Oak so is more brittle. It is also less rot resistant. It doesn't like to bend as easily as White Oak so when under stress and then hit hard it will break easier than White Oak.
Below is the White Oak write up from Glen-L's site which is a great resource for information.
Click Here to visit the Glen-L site.
OAK, WHITE
47 lbs. per cubic foot, 3.83 lbs. per board foot
White oak is a domestic Eastern wood often used in boat building. The problem with white oak, however, is distinguishing it from red oak that is not nearly as suitable for boat building since it is weaker and rots easily unless pressure treated with preservatives. The following characteristics should help in separating white oak from red oak. The heartwood pores will be plugged with abundant hair-like ingrowths known as tyloses, whereas red oak will contain few. The heartwood of white oak is tan or light brown, while that of red oak is reddish or pink. The pores in summer wood are very small and numerous in white oak, but with red oak they are few, large, and open. A chemical test using benzidine-sodium nitrate turns white oak heartwood dark brown or greenish brown, but that of red oak turns light orange. White oak is excellent for steam bending but should ideally be "green" for this purpose and not seasoned. It is durable, stiff, strong, hard, holds fastenings very well, is rot resistant, but is somewhat difficult to work and requires sharp tools. Because of the gallic acid in white oak, it reacts with plastic resin glue when submerged in salt water, and therefore this glue should not be used with white oak under these conditions.
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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on
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What makes the White Oak group of oaks suitable for marine use (and oaken barrels), is their large, earlywood pores (the fresh, new wood formed each Spring) are clogged with whitish, waxy tyloses that water won't penetrate. The Red Oak group of species lack these tyloses, allowing water to penetrate and the wood to literally weep and seep at the end grain. This combined with other factors causes the Red Oaks to be subject to the rapid onset of mold, fungus and rot.
Here's a website that discusses the science. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=125435
Rick Newman
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Permalink Reply by John Greenleaf on
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Russs, One other thing, due to some of the above-mentioned characteristics, it also changes colors pretty dramatically when exposed to the elements (at least that's been my experience). Gets kinda grayish and dark. Not very attractive as compared to when used for interior work. John G.
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Permalink Reply by Russ Tuter on
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OK, no Red Oak. I have some CVG Red Fir here with around 20 growth rings to the inch. I think I'll be using that. thanks to all that responded.
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Permalink Reply by Lawrence E. Long on
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Russ: the boys have it right. When you say Red Fir I presume you mean Douglas Fir- good choce- check the grain runout-anything less than 18" might give you problems with splitout. Just finished 1inner and outer curved stems -10 laminations each. One of them had some runout and split out in 2 spots- but i can work around them when tapering the outer stems. Curved stems on a boat look really nice(see Jason's works of art) but they are a PITA to fabricate and use a lot of wood and glue.
Good Luck
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Permalink Reply by Dave Z on
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Turns BLACK when water gets under the finish. That's reason enough to steer clear.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Kittell on
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Sorry to bring up an old post, but I was told at my local lumber yard that red oak would not be as good as white, but I should be able to use it... So I have made my chine battens and stem cap out of it. It seems like everyone is very against using it, and from what I hear about it I am too, but I already have everything cut and ready to go. SO, I would like to try it and see if I can get a season or more of use from it. What are some ways other then covering with epoxy that would help prolong the wood. DO you think painting it would help, or LOTS of oil?
Next time im going to denver for some white oak!
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Paint, paint, paint and then some white oak! I oiled some red oak and it only took one light rain shower to get the dreaded black spots to develop.
As always good luck,
Rick Newman
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Permalink Reply by Brad Dimock on
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A friend of mine described seeing a comparison if red and white oak on a TV handyman show. The host cut small sticks of each wood, dipped them in soapy water, then blew in the end grain of the sticks. The white oak made a few bubbles. The red oak disappeared in foam.
The white oak I used on the Edith is a beautiful tight grained blonde, compared to the more loose grained fleshy-pink red oak I have in my shop. I really prefer beautiful, tight grained blondes!
For the banks dory I built in Maine I specified White Oak. The guy who procured the wood got red. I really like the guy, but goddammit, all this beautiful frames are now turning black.
Just say no to red oak.
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Ben, how long is the drive to Denver? How much time will it take to do the job twice and how much will the materials cost? Just a couple of more thoughts.
Best Regards,
Rick Newman
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Drive to denver is at least an hour, and Im not sure who would have it down there. Not sure how much the wood will cost, but I have already cut the red so I cant return it. I may paint it the same color as the boat sides and go with it for a season, then I may need to replace it anyway. I know this may not be the best idea, but im WAY over budget and was hoping to take her out before I start working every day for the summer.
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