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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on July 2, 2012 at 7:17am

Chris, it looks like you have built a fairly solid stand. Perhaps a few triangular braces to keep it from "racking" or twisting could help. From your pictures your boat appears to be twisted or out of alignment. I would venture to say that until you replace your frames and get the foundation in order I would limit the work on the paint and such as it will be disturbed.

Did you save the frame members so you could replicate them? Do you have a bevel measuring tool so you can determine what the various angles of the frames need to be? How are you fastening the boat to your stand to limit movement?

Take a look at Guy and Phil's early posts where they built their strongbacks (stands) to see what I mean. Their style of building is close but different than your boat's style. They build the framework of their boat on a strongback and connect the frames with a long connecting board down the center.

Rogue and McKenzie boats built in the "Oregon" style use no strongback, they take the cut side panels, attach them to the "stem" at the narrow end of the boat. Next they pull the sides together and attach one side then the other to the transom at the wider end of the boat. The previously constructed frames are then installed at the proper points starting at the bow to develop the shape of the boat and expand the panels to the finished shape that your boat already has. The frames are installed in order. The frames will already have a cut out for the "chine log", that piece which provides a connection between the side panels and the bottom. The chine log is cut to fit the appropriate length for the boat, it's a fun operation.

Once you have installed the chine logs in an Oregon style McKenzie boat and leveled the surface where the bottom will connect the plywood that will become the bottom is laid on the boat and reference points made so that after the bottom's shape has been scribed to the underside of the plywood the plywood may be removed and the excess plywood removed. This is also a good time to mark where the frames that form the floor will be so that when screws are installed through the plywood later you know where to drill holes and hit the frames.

After the plywood is correctly bedded and attached the edges are shaped to match the angle of the side panels of your boat so that an outer chine log can be placed over them without gaps. The outer chine logs can be cut and shaped to your boat and then bedded and screwed on.

Now, remember that stem I spoke of that connects the two side panels at the bow of your boat? Well it's covered with a stem cap. That's the grey piece that you are trying to remove. It is normally wide enough to cover both of the edges of the side panels where they are attached to the stem as well as the exposed portion of the stem. I can't see from your pictures what is holding your stem cap on. I would guess, a. epoxy, b. silicon bronze nails, c. screws, d. bubble gum, e. 3M "5200". So if I were removing the stem cap I would either use a "cat's paw" or "kitten's paw tool to expand the opening between the stem and the cap to expose the connecting devices or adhesives. These tools are a form of pry bar, Takagi made the ones I used to sell and love to use. They are very broad and wide, but also very thin at the edge and then tapered back to the body of the tool.

Many people use them when they are trying to remove the trim and molding pieces in a house without damage.
You can also sharpen them so that you can place them between incorrectly install frames members so that you can shear off silicon bronze nails. You can also install the number six frame in a McKenzie style boat incorrectly three different ways but only once correctly! Don't ask how I know. Remember our conversation where I said I have made a few mistakes along the way!

So once you have removed the stem cap you can then determine the condition of the stem. A popular tool that you will appreciate is an ice pick or scratch awl. If either of these tools will not penetrate the stem, inner chine logs or any other piece of wood on your boat with moderate pressure the wood has passed the first test. Solid wood is normally not rotten wood. However once you have "wooded" or removed all previous paints and coatings from suspect wood you can then do a visual determination to see if the wood is dark or discolored.

Having any fun yet? You will become friends with the sandpaper store! I like to have a full range of orbital sander discs from 50 grit to 220 grit. Fifty packs are cheaper per disc. Bite the bullet and buy plenty. McLendon's might have good prices on them.

Now, once you get your hands on Roger's book the words I have written will be supplemented by his fine writing and fine drawings to show what I have been explaining. However Roger has not delved into the difference between Midwest style boats, those which are built on a stongback from the inside out versus the Oregon style boats which are built from the outside in. I hope that between the pictures on Guy's and Phil's site you can compare that with other pictures of the Oregon style boats to better see what I mean. I will post some pictures later from my own build along with comments to help yo see what I am writing about.

Good luck with your build, before long you will be showing us lots more pictures and writing about the next boat you want to build. You and your kids will learn a tremendous amount with your project. You are giving them a good gift. As you continue on your project you will better understand what I mean.

Best of luck,

Rick Newman

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Permalink Reply by Chris Dinsmore on July 2, 2012 at 7:49am

Wow, thanks for the in depth comments Rick!

The entire boat was put together using non galvanized nails. Which likely wouldn't have been an issue had the frame wood not been soaked with water. 

You can't see it from the pictures but it is clear from the inside that the stem wood is rotten. My fingernail test was enough to demonstrate that. An ice pick would have gone clean through without much help! Which is also the concern with the inside chine, which really has me concerned. The inside Chine is about the consistency of Balsa wood, and it pains me to admit will need to be removed and replaced. 

I have a 14" Bandsaw & a shop full of tools, plus I am planning on buy a jointer & a planer to help shape the frame/ribs. Making a new frame will be time consuming but I have the knowledge and experience to do it. The inside still shows the marks where the frame was attached. I will have to approximate the bevel at each point, but there must be some way to line up the bevels to keep the body square and consistent. Close enough to the original bevel to make her sound & sturdy. 

I had hoped to work from the outside in, but I also noticed that it the boat is twisting. I had it on the stand off center and have since centered it on the stand. I will take a look later today and see if that fixed it, but I doubt it did. I will flip her over and see what I can figure out. I am pretty good with Google Sketch-up so I will likely model out what I want to do, before I do it.

Last November I made 75 exotic end grain cutting boards. I have sand paper like you wouldn't believe. 100 round 8 hole Mirka Gold disks for ever grit from 60-800. I also have leftover 3" round from my time turning wooden bowls on a Big Jet Lathe. To go with them I have several sanders, an shopwide Dust filtration system and a Trend battery operated respirator.  

I am sure there is much more to come!

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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on July 2, 2012 at 9:36am

Chris, you are in great shape. You may find that a total disassembly is in your future! I wish I had your tools. A table saw is pretty handy for making the frame members. Again see Guy's posts for the jig he made to cut them. A sliding bevel will help you determine the correct bevels. Each frame member has a different set of angles.

Roger Fletcher has the plans/drawings available for most all of the boats in his book. From there you can replicate the frame members.

You will do fine.

Rick Newman

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Permalink Reply by Chris Dinsmore on July 2, 2012 at 1:48pm

You should have seen my shop 3 months ago! I had a full cabinet shop with an Oliver 8" jointer Delta 18/36 drum sander, grizzly 3hp cabinet saw, Powermatic Drill Press, and a Jet 1642 lathe. I sold all of them because I won't need any tools the next 2 years while I am in school. I am really thinking I am gonna let the boat sit until I go back to school so I can use their tools. I get kind of particular about the quality of my work.  Give me some time to read all the books I need to read.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on July 2, 2012 at 2:23pm

Chris, here's a picture of my huge shop. I can barely get my boat in to work on it. If it wasn't for reasonably good weather most of the year it would be really difficult to work on my boat. My not-yet-repaired hot tub makes a good bench.

Speaking of pictures; here's boat they guy had in Coeur d' Alene:

Let me know if you want me to post them on Picasa and send them to you.

Good luck,

Rick

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Permalink Reply by Chris Dinsmore on July 2, 2012 at 2:34pm

Sure, would love to see more pictures of other Rogue Dories. I really like the look of the strip built boat Randy Eyre posted on June 21st. Also the boat Kirby posted on June 11th. That is the direction I am probably going with my build. I am nothing, if not ambitious! lol

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Permalink Reply by Phillip Westendorf on July 2, 2012 at 7:32pm

Chris,

Here's a tool you'll use plenty; to disassemble the stem or just shave off a 1/64 off a frame when fitting. I'ts faster than a sharp chisel (I have lot's of them too) and sometimes a lot easier to cut into "blind" areas of the boat. It's a multitool. Everyone makes one now and you'll find it very helpful.
http://www.portercable.com/Products/CategoryOverview.aspx?catPath=4...
or http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/search_subCategory.... MultiMaster&category=654&refine=1&page=GRID

G'Luck,
phil

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Permalink Reply by Chris Dinsmore on July 2, 2012 at 8:39pm

Thanks Phil! I was actually just reading the reviews for the Harbor Freight model & searching the Craigslist Mall.

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