Wooden Boat People
By McKenzieDriftBoat.com
10 ft pram design help
Hello!
I'm wanting to design/build a multi-purpose pram. I realize it will be a compromise. I weigh ~ 220# and my dog ~100#. I would like a pram that I can take out 'round the lake margins for ducks or fishing, or/and across and down the river (no whitewater). I think the flyfishing, drift prams are too much of a driftboat for my purposes. And the basic/typical pram design needs a little alteration for what I want out of it. I would like to load 400#- 450#, safely. This would be a stitch 'n glue project.
I plan to build something like the Hudson Springs Pram: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/me...ings/index.htm
I wouldn't put the seat in. This would be a more basic/simple design.
But, I want to put more rocker in it, especially the narrow, upstream transom. And I plan to rake the wide transom back and rocker it up, for rocky river use.
Z's Drifter looks nice!,, but I want a lighter boat:
http://www.woodenboatpeople.com/foru...s-drifter-pram
I'm seeing 10' prams with about 46" bottoms. Can/should I go narrower?
How much should I raise/rocker the two ends?
I would appreciate any/all thoughts on my concept, so far!
Many thanks,,, Ken
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ken Shindledecker on
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Thank you, gentlemen! I want a lighter-duty and lighter weight boat than these sturdy drift prams.
Background on my abilities: I've run a Hill and Steele boat with Dick Helfrich, JC Johnson, and friends, numerous times, Olallie to McKenzie Br. and N. Umpqua above and down through Pinball to the gravel site.
I'm not wanting a drifter, but rather a lighter boat that I can easily throw atop the pickup and get into ducky spots,, or go 'cross the river, or anchor out here on the Willamette, above Aspen.I just ordered a couple copies of Dynamite Payson's books. I'm thinking SNG/TackNTape?,, but rather than glassing the whole boat, I'm thinking of just oiling the sides and keeping the boat at minimum weight.. maybe throw in some semi-knee/ribs as braces. Is this totally crazy?
Randy, in an earlier post, somewhere, you said you had a 10' and 12' drifter and was considering working up plans. Have you done that?
I've taken angles off of a number of driftboats and understand a bit about hull design. I don't want to take up much of your(pl) time, but/and really appreciate the feedback you all have given!!
Take care, Ken
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Are you looking for more of a lake pram? Smith Brother's Prams seem to be the best along with Spring Creek Prams. Here are some home made ones:
http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6895
http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21985
I have more photos I have collected and some other leads.
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Both of those are very nice! I would rake the wide transom back a bit. This/these look like they would survive mild chop and roll, most of what could be found below the Leaburg Dam,, and still be a little lake boat.
I probably should stick with at least a 10'er, so as to be able to get the dog and a dozen dekes in.
I did come across the Smith Bro's boats, but couldn't really find a link to an actual boat site... more of a blog and the Duckworks site. I guess I did find this one, before, and like the looks. I think I could model, loft, and SNG/TNT this without much difficulty: http://hookedonwoodenboats.com/howb-041-smiths-boat-shop-50-years-o...
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Well, I have been looking for plans for a Smith Brother's Pram for several years now with no luck. Out of curiosity I called the number at the bottom of that link you posted... and I reached Fred himself! They still make prams although he is retired. He said they modified their jig from 8 to 10 feet; there are no plans.
I am interested in possibly just purchasing an original. Now I am in Michigan so I think that is not going to happen.
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Well,, here's the approach I'm taking, until they tell me it's really wrong: I have several books, including The Dory Book and Devlin's Boat Building. I have a couple others that I found useless. I saw good references for "Dynamite" Payton's books on Tack 'n Tape boat building. I've found many tutorials on trad and boat building with SNG.
I downloaded the Hudson Springs pram and built the cardboard model:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/messer/hudson_springs/index.htm
It's heavier than I want, but I think deleting the seat and other things would help. From this and other sites, I learned how to increase, or decrease rocker.
There are many pics of prams and driftboats, from which I can get angle of flare.. usually 'round 62 degrees, or some down to 58 degrees.
With this, I'll make a 1ft to 2ft, posterboard model and then, move up to a 2ft and/or 4ft veneer model. From there, I'm hoping to scale up to 10 ft!
These prams tend to be pretty wide-bottomed, 45-47" on a 10ft boat. This Bayou Skiff is as narrow as 43", but/and it's not a drifter and not for whitewater:
http://www.unclejohns.com/bysk14/Default.htm
But maybe 44-45" is doable and stable enough? A number of these boats I've seen tend to be to stand and flyfish out of,, and that's not my intent.
Thanks for calling on the Smith Pram! Nice pics on the URL I posted. You might get some valuable info from those.
There's an article from "Science and Mechanics", Making Full-Size Boat Plans. Choose the "Lofting pdf" on the right:
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Permalink Reply by Bill Craig on
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If taped seams are better, why not tape the chine seam on a frame boat rather than using the chine cap? It adds more mantenence like the S&G boats but no one seems to like the chine cap anyway. I'm just a novice at this boat thing so I probably am missing something.
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I'm looking at doing the taping, but also adding a chine cap to the outside, unless that's a silly thing to do. Seems like it'd give a little protection to the edge.
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The chine cap adds some protection against nicks and bumps but you need to screw it on. Even with caluking the screws can create leaks since they go thru the tape. Tape alone can still get nicked but can easily be repaired. Also, tape alone avoids the chine dip and other stuff mentioned above. Guess it's just a personal choice.
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Doesn't a sharp chine give me the ability to cut better? Can I create a sharp/relatively sharp chine with an SNG boat? I thought such a boat would have quite a rounded chine.
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Permalink Reply by Sandy Pittendrigh on
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This (the Jolly Roger....another pointless boat) may not be what you had in mind. But it is a 9 foot long boat 54" wide across the bottom. It's low but decked. This one is made from Plascore sheeting. But if you were determined to use wood you could make it with plywood. The deck bolts down onto a 1/4" thick closed cell foam gasket. Doesn't have any flip lid lockers yet. But it will. You can ship the oars stand up and fish while drifting. Very stable for such a small boat. The dog could ride in back (instead of the bicycle). Earlier this summer--when the water was still up--I intentionally crashed this boat into the biggest Yellowstone rollers I could find, just to see what would happen. A lot of flat-landers row bigger drift boats around those early season waves. I got wet. Real wet. But the boat was just fine. The square end allows me to load it in a pickup, so I don't need a trailer. But for bigger water it would like a pointed front end....just to help keep the rower dry. There ain't no sinking a decked boat.
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Since this still-under-construction photo was taken I have moved the seat and the oarlocks a bit further forward. Next time around I'd make the foot-well less deep, and move the oarlock towers and rower's seat up a bit more. I think decked boats are where it's at. My next project will be an extra-wide decked 17 footer, that works for both desert white water and fishing.
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Thanks, Sandy! I've considered something in a sit-on-top, but went away from that idea.
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