Wooden Boat People
By McKenzieDriftBoat.com
adhesives for frames
I started to build frames today with a half lap joint.Has anyone used polyurethane gorilla glue?
Views: 639
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on
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Yes I have used it and I agree with many folks on woodenboatforum.com and I wouldn't use it again in a wooden boat build. Too much history of failure. Why not Titebond III. It is waterproof and it dependability is infrequently questioned. There are good writeups to be found on the web as well as test results.
Try both for your self and see which withstands the greater stresses and immersion in water.
Why not epoxy, check out the test results that Phil Dorfman had done using epoxy and half-lap joints?
Rick N
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Permalink Reply by tungsten on
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Theres the mess also with the poly glue,foams out makes a mess and its on your hands and tools,arg.
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Permalink Reply by Kurt Selisch on
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I agree with Rick N, titebond III, very, very thin layer on the surfaces to be joined is all that's needed, the stuff is strong and waterproof. Cleans up with water so not a hassle.
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Here's some further info on the poly glues. http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Troubleshooting_Polyurethane_...
Rick
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Permalink Reply by dreu patterson on
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what epoxy would you use?Please be specific if you can and include fillers you use .Thankyou for your response
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Permalink Reply by Mike Baker on
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I have become a huge fan of West System G/Flex. One to one ratio and no fillers needed (for most applications).
Mike
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I agree! Mike knows his stuff! Dreu, there is a huge amount of info to be found on the past five years of posts. It is best accessed by accessing questions on the search engine, you'll get better answers than with a one word query, but you probably knew that.
Rick N
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Permalink Reply by Phillip Westendorf on
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You can mix G-Flex and 105/206 together in the same mix and get the benefit of G-Flex and save a few bucks. We did this a few years ago to add a large basswood carved head to a white oak 14 ft. long black panther mascot at one of our local High Schools that had been vandalized with a chain saw. Ben Gougeon from West System provided the epoxies and recommended the mixture as the woods were quite different and this was outdoors in the schools football field.
Just another experience,
Dorf
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Bag the Gorilla Glue in the boat! Save it for fixin furniture and stuff like that.
Works great for broken Carousel Horse Legs when kids jump on them getting on and off our local carousel that I maintain here where I live. Just repaired the right rear leg on this horse with gorilla glue.
Sorry for the off subject diversion.
Any epoxy will work fine for gluing frames if you follow the manufacturer's directions. If you use epoxy, first wet the mating surfaces with mixed epoxy to get a good absorption in the wood fibers and then add a filler to the remaining epoxy and add the thickened to one of the joint pieces and clamp them together lightly so as not to squeeze out the epoxy you just added. 1" spring clamps work good for this.
Being a bit frugal I added Talcum powder to my epoxy for this. You can spend the bucks and purchase the stuff the mfgr's sell or use wood flour. It's just a filler to level out the contact surfaces, nothing more is required for the half lap joints.
Titebond II or III works well also, but water intrusion can become a long term problem. The frames should be sealed with a minimum of two coats of epoxy to prevent the water getting to the joints.
I had a discussion with Ben Gougeon (West System) about G-Flex a few years ago when it first came out. It's primary use was intended for dis-similar materials with different rates of thermal expansion. It works well as an epoxy for most general use but your wasting you money because the "cheaper" cost stuff works. Period.
Dorf
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Thankyou all for your input.I have a kids pool iv'e been testing glue jobs with.So far gor glue and titebond 3 are not affected after 4 hrs of submersion.titebond is far stronger.I have a little polyester resin leftover from my last project along with some fiberglass "flour" I will glue and test another day.Is laminating resin basically the same as epoxy?.I really like the look of half lap joints and intend on using them on this boat.It is a rapid robert 16'.I'm not sure everyone is getting this message and the thankyou.If not,dorf will you please pass it on-dreu
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Permalink Reply by David Witton on
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Here's some info on Titebond III - which claims Type I water resistance:
What is the difference between the ANSI/HPVA Type I and Type II water-resistance specification?
Both of these tests are conducted using 6” by 6” birch laminates glued together to make three-ply plywood. The test for Type I is clearly more stringent than Type II, and involves boiling the glue bonds and testing the specimens while they are wet.Type I testing involves cutting the 6" by 6" assemblies into 1" by 3" specimens, boiling them for 4 hours, then baking the specimens in a 145°F oven for 20 hours. They are boiled for an additional 4 hours, then immediately cooled using running water. The specimens are sheared while wet, and the bonds must pass certain strength and wood failure requirements to pass the Type I specification.
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Permalink Reply by MAS Epoxies on
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I would suggest an epoxy. A good two-part epoxy on the market would be Gluzilla, G-Flex, Silvertip. They load in a standard caulk gun and come with static mixers. Waterproof, sets in about 45 minutes in 70 degree temp and is basically epoxy on demand and might be convenient for something you're working on.
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