Wooden Boat People
By McKenzieDriftBoat.com
Dorf's Wooden Drift Boat
I just found this Forum the past week and was pleased to see all the interesting discussions. I have previously (2006) built and launched a 16 ft. Peterborough Stripper from Tom Moore's original Canoecraft. The Bear Mountain Boats Forum was a wealth of information, as I had not built anything from wood that was expected to float, in water. The stripper was a lot of fun to build.
About a year later I discovered/purchased Roger Fletcher's book and decided to make a go of it and build a drift boat. Last April I laid out all the framing on poster board full scale. I am a retired Mfg. Engineer with 41 yrs in the Machine tool and Automotive Industry with lots of hrs. Hanging over a drafting table. After making the decision to build I spent many hours deciding materials, features etc.
I have 210 BF of White Ash from a couple of trees infected with the Emerald Ash Bore (big issue in Mid-Mich). So the framing is Ash (3/4" x 3.00"). I finished the last one in December. I just need to coat them with epoxy (been waiting for 60 degree temps). The frames are constructed using Half-lap joints. I discussed this in 2011 with Jim Watson of Gougeon Brothers and he offered their services in testing the joint strength (they have a MTS Tensile Test Machine w/ 100K Load Cell). I just received the results and test pieces a couple of weeks ago and will post them soon in this discussion. (I need to figure out how to post pictures here.)
The Stem blank is solid Ash. I just finished the transom a couple of weeks ago. It was made from African mahogany. The sides are going to be 1/4 x 7/8" WRC w/bead & cove. I have a couple of planks left over from the canoe. The sides will be encapsulated in 6 oz. glass and West System 105-207 Epoxy prior to being fastened to the frame. The bottom of the boat will be "cold molded" ash at 1/4 x 2 1/4" in two layers one oriented Fore Aft and the other 90 degrees to the first. Planning to add graphite to epoxy on the bottom.
Next work is to build a strong back and begin assembling the framing. Am looking foreword to your comments and assistance.
Thanks for being here.
phil w. (Dorf)
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Andreas Bachelez on
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Dorf,
just wanted to tell you how much I admire what you have been doing with this boat. She is already a beauty! The strip building process is intriguing - just got my canoe plans. Hunting for table saw, router and planer to get started on the strip making process.
happy holidays
Andreas
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Permalink Reply by Phillip Westendorf on
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Well so much for Ice Fishing, above normal temps & high winds destroyed any chance until the end of the month. So I pulled the boat in the garage and went back to work. I managed to add the first strips to the bottom. It looks like it's going to work like I planned. Here's a pic of the first three positioned on the bottom.
I made a few special clamps and several sand bags to hold things in place as the glue cures. Titebond II was used to glue the pieces together with the bead and cove edges. I am hoping to have the first layer in place in the next few days. Then begin the second layer on top of the first.
I have not decided yet which orientation to apply the second layer. I planned originally it would be 90 degrees to the first but now am thinking 45 might work better. I think the 90 degree orientation would result in a washboard effect.
It would take a lot of work to get it to end up flat with a uniform curve, like filling and sanding, there's enough of that to do as it is, eh. I think I just talked myself into the 45 degree orientation. Musta been the Beam and water clearing the cobwebs.
More to come,
Dorf
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Permalink Reply by Guy Fredrickson on
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It's looking very nice Phil!
Maybe you can run the second layer of strips in the same direction as the first, and just stagger the joints of the upper strips over the flats of the bottom strips. That will minimize the space between the two layers of strips. And/or put a layer of fiberglass and epoxy between the two layers of strips.
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Permalink Reply by tungsten on
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lookin sweet Dorf,does it really matter which way they go?45 would look cool but hate to have the boat pull to one side j/k lol!You plan on heavy glass anyway yes?
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tungsten,
Maybe if I make one oar longer it'll compensate, eh. My luck I'd do the wrong one and end up going in circles all day. LOL
Been reading lots of other posts on this forum and haven't decided what glass to use on the outside bottom. Planning for sure to use 6 oz. on the inside. Planning on some sort of coating on the inside bottom, like those "truck bed linings"???? The laminated floor won't look all that pretty to glass and varnish. I kinda like the light grey color I've seen in other posts here.
As for the outside, I have no experience with anything but 6 Oz. Have been thinking of two layers of 6 OZ. it wets out pretty good. I did my canoe with two layers on bottom a couple of weeks apart. Ending up with 6-7 coats of epoxy. Adding graphite to thath should make it durable enough for Michigan's water.
The 12 Oz Biax 45 x 45 you mentioned in Joey's post sounds good too. I haven't seen where or who handles the 12 Oz. cloth. Any suggestions?
phil w.
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Guy,
Good to see your back at it. Hadn't thought of it but it has lots of merit. I'll have to think about it. Maybe another Beamer will make it clearer. Less work fitting up less strips. I like that!
Hadn't thought of the glass and epoxy between the two layers. Currently have been planning on lots of Titebond II with a vacuum pump to "suck" the two layers together to achieve a solid floor. The Titebond II has a much longer working time than epoxy.
Too many choices, eh.
phil w
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Well with the warm temperatures, my ice fishing trip this week to Canada was cancelled Friday (no good ice there also, bummer!). I pulled the boat into the garage and completed the first floor layer over the last three days. It turned out pretty good after I rough sanded it to eliminate the glue and high spots.
Here's a few pics of it in progress and completed.
A little more clamp detail.
The completed piece.
Left an inch overhang all around for fitting to the bottom later.
Wet spots from wiping it down with a damp cloth.
Here you can see the scarfs used to lenghten the wood. they turned out good and flat.
Now I have a few decisions to make.... The first layer split down the middle (glue joint separated) when I was trimming the perimeter. I was able to repair it, but saw that it doesn't have a lot of strength side to side. I decided the second layer is going to go at some angle to the fore aft orientation of the first layer. Maybe it'll be 45, 60 or 90 degrees to the first. Also, securing the two together is open for discussion. Never used 3M 5200 but maybe it'll work for this application, or maybe as Guy suggested Glass & Epoxy..... The first layer looks pretty flat and fair and maybe Titebond II will do it.
More to come,
Dorf
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How much is this wood going to move with seasonal changes?The crack you speak of could you cut it with a skill saw end to end and bisket glue back together?If the surface as you say is flat then another layer of wood glued with TBII will hold it just fine. no need for glass between cause then you'll need to use epoxy again to glue the second layer to the first.
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Permalink Reply by Rick Newman on
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Dorf,
What would happen if you built this like they do cold molded boats? In other words a total of three layers, keep this layer as you eventual outside layer, then using your boat as a frame do two more layers, each fairly thin, 1/8' to 3/16". Run the first at 45 degrees to the boat, then laminate a 5 or 6 oz layer of glass with epoxy. Epoxy each of the the second layer at 90 degrees to that one again laminate with epoxy and glass. Thirdly replace the original floor over the first two layers using epoxy to laminate it. It works very well for other boats and should form a strong "plywood" structure with strong reinforcement between each layer. The epoxy and glass between each layer should resist movement and tie everything together very solidly. You can then laminate a third layer of Dynel over the outside to resist abrasion. You would still have the look of a stripper built boat, strength, and abrasion resistance.
If you are using the boat as a form rather than fastening the pieces to the boat as they are laminated you could also laminate an additional layer of glass to the inside of your floor. Even stronger.
You do great work, I really like your wedge clamping system!
Rick Newman
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Tungsten,
Not sure how this wood will "move". I am hoping none at all, as it'll be encapsulated in glass & epoxy as are the sides prior to assembling it to the framing. I repaired the bow end where it cracked and added a few cross braces to elininate stress along the glue lines until the second layer is positioned permanently.
Well we made more progress today. After much discussion with my son Kevin, he has built wake boards for ten plus years and has more experience in this arena than I do. We decided on a 60 degree angle to the first layer. It seems to be very doable. We decided on glueing three strips together for assembly as a single unit. I scribed pencil lines every seven inches along the length of the bottom on the first layer. Three strips glued together equal about 7 inches width after they are glued together. There's 21 three piece spaces. I then measured the length required for all of them and cut stock for about half.
I still have not decided how they'll be applied or what I'll use to hold the whole thing together. Little more research to do on this subject. Another option is a Urea Resin, Ultra Cat PPR Venier Glue used for for laminating thin laminates like plywood, skateboards, Wake boards, etc. It has a few issues as does Epoxy and other glues.
I am also considering the possibility of epoxying with glass in the middle as Rick mentioned earlier. too many options, eh....
More to come,
Dorf
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It sure is going to be a beauty when its done.
As far as glassing between layers,I look at your floor like a beam,the farther away you put the fiberglass from the neutral axis the more you get from it.
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Tunsten, Thanks for the kind words.
My goal, so far acheved, is still "no screws". That is causing me to be more cautious on the structural integrity of the boat. I don't plan on following Randy's footsteps of this past year, The Colorado River trip with this boat (but I sure as heck would like to).
I do however plan on getting a lot of use from it here on our local rivers which can be somewhat challenging, technically. I understand and agree with your last "beam" comment. Maybe I am just getting carried away; epoxy, dynel, E-glass , resins, etc.....
I just don't want to have to do anyting too soon, like repair the bottom or sides.
I've re-scheduled my Ice Fishing trip to Canada's Lake Simcoe, Ontario next week so I 'll have plenty of time to research, discuss and decide on a plan. The other five guys are all retired Engineers too. Should be interesting conversations at times, eh.
Have a good day!
Dorf
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